Where We Stand on the State of Grading; Wemby vs. Ohtani

About this episode

In this episode, we welcome back Alex and Trent and dig right into the Wemby vs. Ohtani debate. Plus, a look at the state of grading in 2026, post-PSA shutdown of value tiers. What should you grade, where should you grade it, and more importantly, when should you grade it? 0:00 - The boys are back! 3:00 - Have you been to any shows lately?  9:30 - Wemby is a 1-of-1 and people turn in to watch him do crazy stuff that someone his size shouldn’t be able to do, but can. 11:55 - If you look at the boxes Shohei and Wemby check, it’s the same 16:50 - The price for Wemby winning is already baked in, but similar to Ohtani, if he gets hurt it there’s a floor to how low things will go. High-end stuff won’t budge at all.  30:00 - How you should decide where to grade, and how you should decide when to grade 45:00 - 2026 Bowman reactions 54:00 - Ethan Holliday injured and the impact it has on Bowman pricing moving forwardSubscribe to the Newsletter: https://collectibleslife.beehiiv.com/ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

This episode is published by The Hobby Handbook.

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Transcript

Machine transcript — exact wording may vary.

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What's up, Alex? Welcome back. How's it going, dude? We are back. The boys are back. We are back. We're back. So welcome back to the hobby handbook, everyone. Excited to be back with you guys. Know it's been a few weeks, but we're, we're glad to be back here. How have you been, Trent? Catch up a little bit before we get going. I think you can see with my background I've been busy. So I moved a few weeks ago. Now I'm, I actually have like a. A room dedicated to streaming, which is good. And I've got a nice fancy background on my PC stuff. So now I look cool like you with cards in the background. Finally and no longer in a dingy, not well lit basement.

Yes. Hey, the one thing you do need to be careful with is you need to be careful with all the light on your cards and making sure that it doesn't fade autos or anything like that. Yeah. So what's funny is I was actually talking with somebody about this and you know, I don't feel like it's good to, you know, blast out multi million dollar ideas to the world, but I'm gonna do it Right here, right now. How come we don't see any? You know, we see plenty of graded card sleeves. How come none are like UV protected?

Well, there are, I have, I've been buying and this is a free promo and I say free promo, but I'm not gonna name a brand or anything buying the like slab mag type things. I've been buying these off temu for like $4. But it's UV resistant. I mean it's not, it's not going to be perfect. It's not like museum grade glass or anything, but like it's at least better than nothing. And tell me that's not a premium look for a nice JJ Weatherholz. It's a good looking card. I'll give it to you. So I, I got for my windows up here a like UV film and I, I don't know how much of a difference that realistically makes but, but that plus on some of the higher end cards, you know, a little glass case I hope makes enough of a difference.

Right. But it's tough because I'm a firm believer in your cards are meant to be enjoyed. Like if it's a part of your personal collection, it's a collection you should, it shouldn't just be like hidden in a box in a dark room all day every day. Yeah, you look at it. I mean like for me, like my problem is I have a lot on there already. I had my wife actually like put it up there. I was like, I was like, you get to choose what goes where and she did a great job. But I'm like, man, like me being me, I want to put everything I own. But then it would look, you know, a little bit tacky.

Crazy clutter. Yeah, yeah, yeah. What else? Not too much. Been living the dad life, but living the busy life of running the business. It's been. We had a show last weekend. Have you been to any shows lately? So I haven't, no. Like I said, I've been moving the last few weeks. It's been busy. Yeah. So went to a show last weekend down in Chattanooga that was really solid. I did not buy as much as maybe I hoped to or like, honestly I walked out of the weekend feeling positive about what I picked up and I still think that like what I grabbed was solid. But then I was prepping my streams for the month of June and I was like, oh, I don't have, have enough rookie cards. Like I, I don't have enough cards. Like I had to dip into my like, so, so pile for like my last five Cards for each stream which like that's not a huge deal. It's all good but definitely need more inventory. I feel like and I'd be curious to know from our audience how if whether or not they feel the same way. I feel like shows it has been harder to find value stuff like value bins, dollar bins, $2 bins, Etc. I feel like so many people are moving to just the like mid to high end stuff. Your showcase stuff, which don't get me wrong, I need that stuff as well. But my business is powered by the $2 bit.

Yeah. That's the type of stuff that I make my margins on when I'm flipping a slab. Most of the time I'm breaking even, if not maybe even losing a little bit of money. Especially in like bigger, more expensive slabs. They're my Costco hot dog. It's the loss leader. I know that it's bringing people in the door that they buy that one really cool Albert Poolhost slab and then they buy the cheaper Albert Poolhost. Maybe that goes for a little bit overcomp and it averages out to me doing okay. Yeah. I was listening to the ball card show and they were talking about this too about how like you know, they're, they're what, 20 to $50 range? Like they can't hold on to anything. Even repackers are moving to that range because stuff's just getting too out of hand.

Yeah. I mean and I will say and one of the things that I was curious on your opinion wise, one of my notes in terms of the card market, I don't know if you saw Card ladder came out with their sales data for the month of May. Did you see this? I did not. But I have an assumption. Another record month in terms of sales. Month of May had a total sales volume of 600 over $668 million in card sales. And that again is another record high. I think that April was like 600ish million, just a little bit over 600 million. So another huge increase if you look at the graph. But I'm curious on your perspective. You we see those record numbers in terms of the total sales volume. How do you feel in your personal experience of selling break spots of, you know, your Facebook group, things like that? How do you feel the card market is right now compared to like card ladder saying, oh my goodness, it's the greatest that it's ever been?

I mean to be honest, I feel like it's the greatest it's ever been. I know, I know it sounds Crazy. But like I mean even you, you were talking about this on your stream last night. The Lightspeed Shohei Ohtani. That is a pretty common insert. It's a $50 card and it sells for $50 every day. Like, I mean that I, I feel like all you have to do is look up recent sales on ebay to see that everything is like, I mean people are going to say it's a bubble and it's going to burst. But this, this bubble's been growing for the last year and a half plus.

So it has, it's something that's interesting to me and it might be that the market and space in which I play in I feel like I have seen and I have the data to back this up. Sales slow a little bit over the last month, month and a half. Which not shocked given the price of gas in this country. Like I sell mostly low end cards where most of my buyers are people who are building a collection. And if you are having to make the decision between I'm going to put gas in my car or buy shiny cardboard, I understand you probably have to put gas.

I would hope that you're choosing gas. I, I, you know, I would hope it. You know, obviously I don't love my sales numbers being down and we had a fine month. I gotta post my, you know, monthly recap video today. But we had a fine month but like sales are definitely down. I have seen that. But I also think that it's maybe just certain pockets of the market. I really feel like, and I mentioned this in my video talking about the card show this past week, I feel like we are in and other people have said this. So this is, I'm not, I'm not trying to propose this as. This is amazing. Alex. I'm the first person to think of this. I really think the goat market has arrived. Yeah, I think that you know, in stream when I'm selling shoe Otani cards, when I'm selling Aaron Judge cards, those are flying. But the mid tier Bowman Prospect or the Wyatt Langford cards or the Jackson holidays who probably previously, you know, and they still have their upside and obviously they've gone down market wise but previously guys of that kind of caliber and tier of upside maybe we'll see aren't selling like they used to but we are seeing the big name players and that might be part of the reason why the value stuff is hard to find because nobody's putting Ohtani stuff in their value boxes.

No, not at all. And, and you also have to look at the time I mean, it's the, like today we're recording on June 3rd. Right. The next big release, I would argue, is, well, platinum anniversary Friday. But I mean, that's not like a gigantic release. We've got Series two coming up later. But it's like, okay, the NBA is wrapping up. The Finals are here. So, you know, you've got two teams still playing with baseball. It's the dog days of summer are here. We've got a month until the All Star Game, so that's going to be the next, like I would say spike for All Stars. Cards going up. Obviously, prospects still get called up, but we've got that. I mean, hockey's wrapping up, you know, football, we've still got a couple months. So it's like, you know, everything is. It's kind of a quiet time in the sports community. So, I mean, it's not shocking that Cards are, you know, a little bit quieter or harder to move right now, either.

Yeah, it's. It's very interesting and I feel like what it's making me consider and think about doing, you know, this past weekend, I bought. I bought multi sports stuff. I mean, Wemby's, you know, Lamar LeBron, like, I do not buy football cards and basketball cards for the most part. But given what Wemby's market has become, given, as we said, and I got a little bit of flack in my video, and I'm curious on your perspective here for calling, for putting Wemby, for saying that it's a goat market, yet saying Wemby is one of those guys who's driving the goat market. I feel like I understand that that is hyperbole to say that Wemby is a goat, but from a talent perspective, he is a one of one.

Yes. Like, so, I mean, if you listen to the SCN episode, it was either the last one or the one before, but Alan jumped on there too, and he's like, he's like, there's nobody who's ever been like this before, ever. Like, you know, I mean, I don't watch a ton of basketball. But I tell you what, I put on game seven, I put on game six, I put on game five. Like, I'm, I'm watching it because I want to see Wemby do crazy stuff. Like when he pulls up, you know, from the logo and he's seven feet tall and just drains it like he meant to do it. I, I know that there's the whole interview clip with him saying that, but it's like, it's like this guy, like we've never, I've never seen anything like it. And it's, it's driving somebody like me who doesn't watch a ton of basketball to want to watch basketball for him. It's just like Shohei. People didn't watch baseball until they found out that this dude can pitch and he can hit and he hit bombs. You know, like, you know, he, like you said, he's unique. He's a one of one. Like I think that that's the whole rationale and I firmly believe that, yeah, he should be put in that category.

Yeah, it's, it's really interesting. Do you believe I, you know, you mentioned listening to scn. Which side of the take are you on in terms of Mike versus Alan? A little bit in terms of. Would you sell the Wemby card if you had a big Wemby card right now or are you buying slash holding? I'm so, I'm an incredibly risk adverse person. So you're on Mike's side. I am on Mike's side with this because, you know, he said, what do you say? You could buy it back in two months for cheaper. I don't know if that's true. Yeah, it's one that I'm a little like. I don't know if that's true, but the odds of it being cheaper are higher than it being. Than the card itself being higher. In my opinion, you know, an offseason. The only player that we've seen in the last couple of years who's held or exceeded value in the off season is Shohei Ohtani. That's one player out of every major sport. I playing those odds. I think that Mike's right and I think it, it might come down a little bit, but I don't think it's going to, you know, we're not going to see like a big dip.

I don't think where I am very curious and I, I am by no means a basketball market expert. It is the market that I probably know the least about. Where I'm curious though is you. To, to your point of Shohei Ohtani being the exception to the rule. I somewhat wonder if Wemby is also, if you look at the boxes that Shohei checks international market appeal. Wemby has that a one of one type player, something that you do not see often, if ever absolutely checks that box. We're on the same page. Championship pedigree and caliber is the one question that we have. But he's led his team to the finals at 22 yeah, you didn't see LeBron do that. You didn't see Jordan do that.

The thing that gets me though is right now, I think the odds, I know they brought it up on the show, but I think the spurs are like minus 700 to win or something like absurd. So it's like, do you think that even over the next couple weeks, if the spurs win the NBA Finals, are Wemby's prices going to go up? I don't think they're going to go up at the rate that people think they're going to because I think that when it comes to that price point, winning this championship is already baked in to these high sales recently.

Well, and you know, you know, from having talked and worked with me a lot, I'm a big proponent of is it already priced in? And I think that both, I agree that it's a little bit priced in. At the same time, I can also see a win solidifying the, just like, yep, it's, it's over. He is going to dominate the league for the next decade plus. And this has just solidified his position and trajectory where now I'm not going to sell the Ohtani stuff. This past weekend, you know, I had some guy come up to the booth and I had an otani Home Field PSA 9. The last sale I think was 625. I had, I had a 650 sticker on it. And he goes, would you do 540? And literally I, I, I was like, no, like 540.

How about a $500,000 coin flip? Well, and, and by the way, I'm seeing Brandon, who's texted us. You are incorrect on odds. You are giving the spurs too much credit. They opened at minus 205. Okay. I don't know why. The odds right now are minus 190. So they're still favorites. I think that, I do think, just personally, like on the Finals, I think that it is a closer matchup than even the odds maybe suggest. I think the Knicks do match up fairly well with the Spurs. You know, if you can get Mitchell Robinson back and he can beat up on Wemby a little bit, you know, I think that cat spreads the floor a lot better than, I mean, what Chad Holmgren was able to do in that series. Like, I do think that it's going to be a good matchup. I, I will not be surprised if it goes to six or seven games.

Yeah, no, I mean, that's the thing is like, I, yeah, my bad on the odds. I, I don't know why I thought it was something absurd. No. But everybody's talking about it from that perspective of like the spurs are the heavy favorite. Yeah. And so that's the perception. The thing that I look at is like you kind of brought this up for, for a split second but when it comes to Wemby, I feel like all him winning does. I don't think we see a large spike but I think it raises that floor to where we will never see his cards dip below a certain price point again after he wins it. I don't think it, I don't think we see a 30% spike in the silver PSA 10 market. I think we just see that, you know, the card won't dip below 2500 in the next five years.

Yeah, it's, it's, it's the same thing to back to our Ohtani discussion of people talk about like, oh like is there going to be an opportunity to buy for less maybe marginally small amounts but even then anything that is like. And this is where Mike's point I think on the like more like if you have something that is exceedingly rare, hard to find etc, holding that I don't think it's a bad idea. No question. I think in general if you have stuff that's more common there might be some dips in fluctuation and obviously you'll see that more on the more common stuff for Otani etc. But I think your problem is, is that you're also hitting the point where so many people have put so much money into it and they have so much faith in him that it's like if Ohtani were God forbid to get hurt and be out for the year, I think you know, the light speeds those will drop. They will. There's to your point, they're so common. There's so many of them. But the rare stuff, the as I knock cards over the, the second year gold national pack, I'm, I'm not going to sell that for a discount. If Ohtani gets hurt I will just say all right, cool. I'm gonna hold it because I think that his, his position in the history of baseball and his position of like essentially having a Jordan esque market is solidified that I'm not gonna, you know, why bother? Like I'm not going to sell it for low. And that's where I think that like I think that you're right that you're not going to see a huge jump in value numbers if Wemb, if Wemby wins. But I think that you will get to the point where you will no longer have. The buying window is today. And a year from now, you'll probably end up saying, man, I should have bought that Wemby. In the same way that Ohtani.

Yeah, it's the same thing with Ohtani. Yeah, we had the same discussion last night on stream. Somebody said, you know, I can't bring myself to buy Ohtani cards right now. And I said, why not? And they said, because they're so high. And I said, guess what? People said the same thing last year for the exact same thing. And they should have bought them then. Right. And people were saying, just buying the off season. And what happened in the off season? His price went up. It's. It's incredible. I mean, we can. We can do one last stab on Wemby. I'm not. Did you see the comps for Wemby that I put in our chat?

No, I did not. So. So take a gander. Take a wild guess at what the most recent sale this is yesterday. Silver PSA 10, WEMBY 3800. Very, very close. 3750. Okay. I listen to scene on Monday where Mike was talking about, you know, listings at, like, the 36, 700 range. Yeah. And they're. And they're coming up. I mean, like, yeah. 3750, 3600. 3700. Like, they're. They're still. They're still climbing, which is kind of surprising to me. But at the same time, I think about myself and kind of the perspective I brought where I don't watch a ton of basketball, but it's making me want to watch basketball. So, like I said, I. I don't know how much further this goes, but we've. We've said the same thing about Ohtani. So, I mean, we keep comparing Wemby to Ohtani. I feel like it's still a bit early for that.

But, yes, Wemby, to what Mike said. You know, Wemby has no championships, no MVPs. He's got a defensive player of the year, Ohtani, four MVPs. Looking like maybe he's going to win his fifth this year, you know, multiple championships. Ohtani could retire today. And he's a Hall of Famer, no doubt. Agreed. Wemby retires today. He's one of the biggest what ifs in NBA history. Yeah. Yeah. Hall of. Very good. So, obviously, the spurs are playing the Knicks, so let's do a little player comparison with Jalen Brunson. So we just got those sales averaging the last three around 3700. What do you think? Jalen Brunson's 20182019 silver PSA10 rookie goes for 800 bucks. Close. It's the second most recent sale but yeah, 1800/1100 is WEMBY three times better the player than Brunson. I genuinely have no idea. I don't I much about Jalen Brunson's game I'm going to say. I mean in terms of his game. No, but also yes because it's not a linear like the. The math doesn't math from this perspective in the hobby it's the same thing of. Is Shohei Ohtani a 20 times better player than Ronald Acuna Jr.

Yes. No like selling Ronald Acuna Jr. It's actually even more than this A so A Ronald Acuna Jr. And you. I don't know if you know this Ohtani comp because this Ohtani comp haunts me. Last night on stream I sold and Acuna Bowman Chrome Rookie refractor number to 499. Not auto, just the refractor rookie. Did you really? That's so funny. I sold an SGC 10. I've got a PSA 10 on this shelf right here. So PSA 10, do you know what. Do you know what it comps for? I would, I think around 2, 300 bucks. 220 for the last two sets. Do you know what Ohtani PSA 10 Bowman Chrome Refractor Rookie sells for?

I do to a point because I had the opportunity to buy one at three grand and I turned it down because it wasn't an auto about three years ago now I think it's like a 10k card. Try 30. Are you kidding me? I had. I owned one. I owned one. I traded a Jason Tatum Prism Silver and I think it was. God, it was some other random card plus some cash. I was into it for like a thousand bucks basically. I sold it probably in 2022 for like two grand 2,500 bucks and I was like great. I'm more than double my money. That's awesome. I will take it. And I check once every quarter basically to see where it's at.

You gotta. And they're doing like 30k. Yeah, you gotta. I mean dude, literally. So I mean just on my stream the other day, so one thing that I really like to do to kind of like show off my PC when I stream is I always put like a card up there for. For good luck. You know I let the chat pick like hey, give me A team. Give me a player. If I've got something for them, I'll put it up on the stage. Well, somebody said put up an Ohtani and here's his 20, 19 tops short print. It's a good image PSA9 and you know I bought this card raw for 50 bucks a couple of years ago and I was like, yeah, like it's just, it's a cool image. I collect image variations and last I looked I think this card is doing like, like $500. I'm like, this is a second year Ohtani rookie cup card. PSA nine. That's, that's crazy. It might be 300 but it's hundreds of dollars. And I'm like, yeah, anything that says, you know, just Ohtani on it. I don't care if it's a, you know, fourth year purple refractor. It's going to sell and it's going to sell for more than you think.

No, it will and it's. But it's. But to your point of Wemby vs Brunson, it's the same thing of you have to multiply. You know how many times you have to multiply $200 by to get to 30,000. I don't have that many fingers. You thought this was your run club era. Turns out it was more of a thinking about run club era. The good news, someone's marathon training is about to start. Sell your workout gear on depop. Just snap a few photos and we'll take care of the rest. They get their race day fit and you get a payout for trying. Someone on Depop wants what you've got. Start selling now Depop where taste recognizes taste.

This is what everyone's talking about. Everything's on the table. This, this is what champions come to take. This is what everyone came to see. No do overs, no second chances. No more Mr. Nice Guy. This is winner take all. And it's all happening now on the home of the NBA Finals. Don't miss it. June 3rd on ABC and the ESPN app. It's a lot. It's 150 times. Yeah, I do not have that many fingers. So what is the Ohtani is obviously not a hundred and fifty times. I would take 150 Ronald Acunas over one show a Otani from a like if I'm building a baseball team.

Oh yes, yes. 100 for man like pure talent like the, the, the actual gap on the field, court, etc. But the market is very, very different than that. And that's where you just run into the like, yeah, I would rather Wemby Prism Silver at 3, 800 than a Jalen Brunson because Brunson is a great player. He might go, he might end up a Hall of Famer. But the likelihood that that card price is going to hold. Look at the price of Dwyane Wade tops Chrome rookie refractors. You have to be long term, you have to be the best or one of the best players of your generation to have long term market relevance. And Jalen Brunson in my opinion will not be that. He's going to be a great player. He is a great player, but he's not going to have the long term market appeal.

Yeah. So, so then kind of sticking to the basketball realm, what do you think about SGA then? My problem with SGA is SGA and the Thunder just are not, I like, I think that they've hit the like evil dynasty, not likable etc SGA game 7. He bald. Yeah. And he did not play his flopping, getting to the free throw line 28 times. Etc, like he played a fantastic game. But the perception is that the Thunder flop left and right and play a brand of basketball that the average consumer does not. That's not fun to watch.

He's a Manny Machado of basketball. It's a decent one. I think he's a better human being than Manny Machado, I'll give him that. But I think that like that's the problem is that you have to be likable. And I think a lot of kids and I think a lot of young people do like Shay, like I think that he has, obviously he has a great market. He is an incredible player. I would love to see him and the Thunder embrace a better type of basketball because if they did, I think that his market would be that would be better because it is, I, I, I think he's going to be great. I think to the point of, you know that we months ago on this podcast we had the conversation of who is the next face of the NBA when we had Dr. Tyler Tarver shout out Tarver cards on here. And one of the things he talked about, I believe was that, you know, the thing is that for Face of the NBA it's going to be guys who are winning MVPs and are winning championships and OKC is going to continue to do that.

Yeah. And that's why, like I asked the question because I mean just looking at the recent sales of SGA's silver PSA 10, I mean like obviously they're falling. Yeah, it's not, it's not, you know, seismic, but we haven't seen like this. The three most recent sales are 3K, 2500 and 24, 25. Now it. The card hasn't dipped below 2500 since, like, March. So it's one of those things where it's still up from March. Yes, but I feel like if you, if you've got SGA stuff right now, I don't. It's going to fall now and through the off season, but I feel like holding it is not a bad idea.

Yeah, it's. It's the. I got the question last night on Jackson Holiday, my seller hold, and I said if I had nice Jackson Holiday, I'd probably hold it. I'm not buying it, but I also don't know, like, that I am selling per. Like, like, I don't. I. I don't view him as a sell because I don't think that there's value there and I do think there's still upside. I don't think that there's like, like, it's. I think you hold it in hopes and, yeah, you might get burnt a little bit more, but, like, it's already down so much. And you know, Shay, you can make the argument of it's still down so much, but I think your problem is to that point of if you can. If they're going to go for $3,000, would you rather have a Shea Prism Silver PSA 10 and $800, or would you rather. Rather have a Wemby Silver PSA 10? Yeah, I'd rather have the Wendy.

Yeah, exactly. I'd rather have the Wemby too. When it comes to Jackson Holiday, though, it comes back to a question or a conversation we had a few weeks ago about, you know, should you buy a player who's not the face of a team? In my opinion, Gunnar Henderson is the face of the team, arguably number two. I know, but he's, in my opinion, he's the face of the team. And I think that Pete Alonso is going to be the number two face of the team and I feel like Jackson Holiday is down, down, down, and he's like mid. Mid tier, in my opinion. So, I mean, I would honestly, I still think that there's room for him to go up. I would. I'm actually really torn between buy, sell or hold with him.

But. But I feel like using that same logic of the SGA or the Wemby, it's almost like, hey, why don't you sell that Jackson Holiday and put it into a gunner Henderson put it into Sam Besallo or yeah, even, even Besideo. You know what I mean? Like there's, he's playing well. There's a lot of guys on that Orioles team that are young, talented and I mean, shoot, Colton Kauser has been playing out of his mind too. Like there's a lot of guys who are playing very well. But it's tough on a team where like I think that Gunner is the number one. But it's not as clear cut as it is with other teams.

Yeah, yeah, no, I agree. Now we have talked a lot about PSA 10 this, PSA 10 that. PSA values PSA last week made some big announcements and I know that other podcasts and this and that have talked about it. I don't think that we need to talk about whether or not it was the right choice, this or that. What I do think that we should talk about and a question that I've been getting a lot is what should I do? Last night on Stream, I had somebody come in who had a card that they bought. Basically it's a, I can't remember what the card was, but they're into it for basically what the price of a raw card is or a PSA9 copy would sell for right now. Maybe PSA9 is gonna do a little bit more, which we'll talk about in a second. They said should I, should I pay the. Oh, I remember it was a Cam Schlitler first, Bowman Gold Shimmer Non auto does about 250 bucks and they're in it for about 250 bucks. Should they send it to PSA or should they send it to like bgs? And I said that's tough because with the, with the PSA pricing that you're gonna have to pay right now in order to send a card in since they have shut off a number of the submission levels, you're gonna have to pay, what is it, 75 or $80, maybe 79.99 before fees, before shipping, you're gonna have to pay 80 bucks to read that card. So if you're into it for 250 bucks and you pay 80, let's call it a hundred dollars. Once you've hacked her in, shipping, insurance, all this and that, now you're into it for 350. My guess is that that's at most what a PSA9 would do given the current market. If a raw card is a 200 or $250 card, a BGS 95 recently sold for 450 of that card and so I said, honestly, in that situation, I probably send it to BGS unless I was overwhelmingly confident that it was going to jam.

Yeah, I, I'm actually on the opposite end of the spectrum. I think, I think it's raw all the way. I think, I think you sell it raw all the way because I mean that, that tier, that regular tier, I think. Now, correct me if I'm wrong, you might know this, but I think it's 30 to 60 business days for the 40 to 50. 40 to 50. Okay. So still we're looking at what, three months? Will Cam Schlitler be playing equal or better in September? I don't know. Will Cam Schlitler have better Chrome cards in September? In my opinion, yes. I think he's gonna have Bowman Chrome rookies. I think he's gonna have Topps Chrome rookies, he's gonna have Chrome update stuff. When the market is demanding it that first Bowman. Yes, long term firsts are better. But during a rookie year, people are more excited about the Topps Chrome stuff because it's the newest and the shiniest. You know what I mean? Like, it's the new release, to be fair, for the same price with Beckett, you can get it back in 15 business days.

I didn't know that. All right. Dang it. Now that, now that makes it so much harder. And granted that's you're paying $80 a card to grade that. Yeah. But I think that the, the question on a more broad sense is what do you do? Because a lot of people, you know, this is the hobby handbook where we're, we're here to yap about what's going on in the hobby, but we're also here to try and educate people in terms of what is, you know, how to exist sustainably in the hobby, whether, you know, new releases, things like that, how you can use the hobby to fund the hobby. Lots and lots and lots of people for a very long time have used grading as the vehicle for being able to do that. Because grading is what is able to unlock you. Buying a card raw for $250. You pay 40 bucks to get it graded in a PSA 10. It's a $750 card.

Yeah. So you just made yourself, you just you, you out of thin air, thanks to PSA created money. It's awesome. Few hobbies in the world are you able to do that, but given the shift and given now that your, your cheapest that you can grade a card with PSA is $80, you have a couple of different options. Do you shift to only looking at more expensive cards that are worth paying that 80 price tag to actually send off and grade? Do you agree with somebody else? Do you flip raw? What if you were, if you had somebody come to you and pose this question, Somebody who says, hey, you know, I have been grading as my way of making money in the hobby and now given the price tag, you know, I've been buying the 30 card that I spent 20 bucks to grade it and it's a hundred dollar card. I'm not buying the 500 card that I'm going to pay $100 to grade. What would your recommendation be?

I mean, it kind of comes down to, I would assume that people who like a lot of folks who grade to sell, I feel like, you know, they have an idea of how, you know, what their gym rate is. How good are they at sending these cards off? If you're really good at it, I mean, I don't see an issue with, you know, shifting to Beckett. I feel like we're going to see a Beckett spike here or an SGC spike. We're going to see a spike from another company because people are going to shift because that's one of the fun aspects of the hobby is getting your parts graded. I feel like you either have to lean into the staying doing what you're doing, it's just going to cut out some of the margin. I, I think that's what's going to happen. We're going to see a huge spike in Beckett. But you know what might happen with Beckett? Beckett might get overwhelmed and then they raise their prices. So it's a, until then, I feel like, you know, Beckett's not a bad play at all. You know, you get the fancy new label. New label. We, we were out for that one too. You know, it's like one of those things. It's like, you know, oh, look, it's so much different.

Oh, wait, it's not that different. It's like the same. They changed the font. Yeah, I, I, I share the thought of, I think Beckett and SGC are about to get overwhelmed. Yeah. The fact that PSA took in literally on the day that it got announced, I think it was 500,000 new submission cards. Yesterday, Burbank cards shut off. They said, they said, we cannot accept anymore. Like yesterday morning at like 9:00am I mean, that, that's, it's, it's wild. I worry that they are going to bet that Beckett and sgc, their, their quoted turnaround times right now are not going to be what you're seeing because I'm seeing right now, you know, standard with Beckett is 45 business days for $35. I look at that and I'm like, I've got a pile of cards that I, you know, need to think about grading. Maybe it may, maybe it's worth doing that. But I worry that it's not going to actually be that given the inundation that it's going to be paired with, what is the market going to do in terms of the. Those values? You know, you're sending the Beckett, you're realistically hoping for a nine, five.

Yeah. Because if you get a nine, what happens? Well, and you're not going to get it back at 10 for the most part that, you know, Mike and Jesse talked about how in TCG, the hope for a Beckett 10, Black Label, et cetera is a thing that people go for. Sports. Guys, we know it's not happening. I'm sorry, it's not. You maybe get crazy, crazy lucky like once in a million. Right. It's the, the percentage chance is so low, but it's, it's, it's not going to happen. So if, you know, like, if you know that realistically you are hoping for a 9, 5, the market on a Beckett 9 5, I think we would need to see a bump in that market value for me to look at it and say, you know, realistically, it's worth sending in a lot of the stuff because higher value card, just send it to the ESA still. And if it's a lower value card, the value on a 9 5, you know, you take the Otani Lightspeed 50 card raw, I'm gonna guess a 9 5, 100 bucks.

Yeah. Realistically, at which point you've either spent $18 to grade it and you're getting it back in 75 plus business days, which, like, yeah, that's decent. But like, let's be honest, you know, is that really worth it by that time? That's six months. I mean, that's realistically closer to six months. And by that time, PSA is maybe back open. And I know then you have to send your cards off, but still. So if you're gonna pay the $35 to get it back in 45 business days now, your upside is $15. And your downside is it gets a nine, you're gonna lose money. Yeah, I feel like. And I'll shout out. Cole, who is a writer for scn, stops into streams. I know longtime listener of SCN and listens to the show as well. Cole Benz, he's been on the show as well with a question before about when SGC slowed down and you know, what do you do grading wise? Because he used to agree with SGC a lot, his perspective and I think that he is right and this is my answer as well is find raw cards that you can buy at decent prices and decent deals and send them off to a consigner like D.C. sports. I D.C. i would love D.C. if you're listening, come sponsor us. I buy so much from DC Sports but I will say lately I have bought less because cards are going for such high prices. Yeah, I think the DC from a consignment perspective is getting to the point where they have so many eyes. The number of times where I'm looking at a car and I say, oh, that's a nice card. You know, it ends in a minute. I'm going to look up and see what it comps for and it's already overcome.

So that's what happened with me. I, so I'm, I actually sort DC by newest because I'm, I'm weird and because I, I, you know, when you say like, oh, I look, it's ending in a minute. Let me look at what it goes for. That, that gives me anxiety. Don't like that because I feel like I'm gonna miscomp it. But no, I, I did the same thing. There was a nice card on there that I said, you know what? This is a card that I've been hunting for a long time. For the record, that other card that I showed you, I bought. I'm not going to show it off yet. I'm going to say that until I get it in hand. But it was a very similar card to that. It's a gold rookie of a big player. And I said, I've been needing this guy for a long time. It's a PSA7. Again, buy the card, not the grade. And I was like, I'm, I'm gonna hit this and I'm going to win it. So I bid about, I think like 15 to 20% over the last sale. I did not win it. I completely agree with you. It's almost like there's too many eyes, which is a good thing because obviously it's driving up the market and the market is propping up for people with cards. But it sucks when you want to go buy something and it's like, well, I better expect to shell out some extra cash here.

Yeah. And I, I, I think that, that if I was somebody who relied on flipping to exist in the hobby. I think that that is probably your best way. And don't get me wrong, you're not going to be able to do well with grabbing a Walker Jenkins Meteoric Rise base card and sending that off to bc. But I would guarantee you that you could take a prime example of a card that I think will overperform what it comps for. Maybe. Maybe I send this off to dc. Maybe we try it out. This is not a crazy expensive card. Griffey Long Ball, Leaders Foil. It's a. There are sales at 10 to 15 bucks and there are sales of 30 plus with the eyes that DC gets and people just bidding on stuff because it's fun and they're doing the sort by ending soonest. I think that that is where you might be able to arbitrage yourself to free value, essentially.

Yeah, you lean towards that 30 every time. Yeah, that's the benefit of it. And you know, people always say, like, hey, like, how do we, you know, how do I grow my business? How I do. You know why D.C. sports does so well? One, they have a crazy amount of feedback and two, they ship properly. Like those two things. That's insane. Shipping speed, that's all you need to do. Ship properly, have high feedback and trust me, like, it's just time at that point. It's just time and volume. That's why people trust them.

It's. It is. I would love to see how they manage their shipping department because the fact that they ship everything literally, like, I will win Monday night, I won $500 worth of cards. By the time that I woke up on Tuesday morning, it was shipped. Yeah. How It's. It's impressive. But do you know what's more impressive to me? Do you know how they have so many cards listed? Haystack. They use Haystack. So in case you're wondering, like, if you've listened to the SCN shows, you know that Haystack is now a sponsor of the show. And I got a nice one on one with a representative from the company and he showed me how it works. This thing is actually so cool. So it's. It's a scan app on your phone that you literally just like, you put the card there, tap, flip it over, tap. You can't look at the scans on your phone because it sends directly to your account online. You open up the browser and it's got everything filled out for you and you can literally, like do that with as many cards as you want, set up your settings in ebay and then you literally just click List. And it does it all for like, dude, when I tell you I have spent like some Saturdays, I literally like, block off like 6 hours to list on ebay. Like, with this, I'm looking at it, I'm like, I could list the same number of cards in half an hour. Oh, yeah, like that. That's why I'm glad that, like, if we're. When we get sponsors like this, who, who actually do something that it saves you time, saves you energy. Like, it's pretty legit. So check out Haystack. It's. It's pretty cool.

Yeah, no, it's great. Tech makes it so much easier. You know, Mike was saying to me when he started selling on ebay Live, another sponsor of scn, that he was spending three hours making his listings. I was like, dude, you've got to do something. You know, get the Haystack. Use it so that you are able to make it so that you don't have to spend three hours listing 60 cards. Yeah, like, you can do that in 20 minutes. Yeah. And it was so funny because he was talking. I, I kind of, I kind of set him up for failure because I was like, hey, like, like, oh, you guys. They're like, oh, yeah, we, we could scan any card and you know, obviously the, the database is growing every day, but most cards we put in there, they work. And me being, me. Me being, you know, Air Force nerd. The first card I scanned was this, a 10 Warthog Desert Storm card. And I was like, like, it did not find my card. And he was like, he's like, well, type in, type in the number. And I literally just typed in like card number 118 and it popped up. I was like, okay, that's actually pretty cool that it knows a freaking airplane card.

Like, yeah, Trent with airplane cards over here. Hey, it's Planes, Trains and automobiles and baseball. That's all you need to know about me. Baseball. Yeah. Speaking of baseball, we haven't chatted since the release of 26 Bowman baseball. Have you watched any? Oh, dude, I think it's. I, I personally really enjoy it because of the inserts. I pulled my first Patchworks card last night. I. I jumped into your stream last night and told you I was excited. Yeah, I mean, that's always. My thing is if we're going to add new SSPs, I want them to look good. Of course. I mean, like the topps Chrome Football SSPs, fantastic looking. The base. Like, compared to baseball, football has better looking ones, but they added in the Patchworks and I Was like, I wonder how this is gonna look. They're. They're pretty clean and I like it a lot. I haven't pulled an anime. I haven't pulled the World Baseball Classic anime, but I'm probably gonna spend too much money on one at some point, so.

Yeah, the. The animes are amazing. I've got the Soto anime in my PC binder behind me. Yeah, one of my buddies, he bought the. Or he bought into a break and he. He texts me and he's like. He's like, you know, I love forgetting to watch a break and then getting something nice in the mail. And he's got the Soto Soto Dominican Republic World Baseball Classic anime. I'm like, that's sick. Yeah. You know, mine's from last year though. Just he's in the Matsu and you were just sweet. But that's. You mean like that one right there? Him doing the Soto shuffle?

Yeah. I. I really like the final drafts over the patchworks, personally. Some of the patchworks look really good. The Soto patchwork, I don't love the Mets City connect uniforms and so given that it's like theme to the city connects. Don't love that personally, but patchworks, super cool cards. I mean, Bowman, honestly, I think that the Shoei Otani Bowman chrome rookie card market spike has led to Bowman rookie cards and Bowman in general carrying more value. The value of Aaron Judges Bowman core, Murky, crazy.

Yeah. PSA 10 is like an 800 car. The base. Yeah. That's more than like his tops. Chrome does. I mean, show his paper rookie the 2018 Bowman one. That's a 600 card in a PSA 10. Yep. That's a paper rookie. But I also think that, that, that Bowman has also added a ton of really nice, really cool in short print inserts with the spotlights. The anime, the final drafts, the Patchworks, like, there's a ton of really, really nice inserts to chase the garbage pail kids in chrome. Yeah. So. So they didn't put garbage pail kids in. In Bowman. And I was kind of. Yeah.

Yeah. So. And some of the more common inserts look great. The Sterling, the Electric Sluggers, the Reptilians. Yeah. Have you, have you seen any from 26 Bowman? I have. Have you touched any? Yes, that's what I was going to say. Their texture. Yeah, I was like. I was like, oh, this is so cool. No, no. Yeah, it's. I think the tops has done a really, really good job with Bowman as of late. I think that it's you. We have seen the market value on that start to rise. The one thing if anybody from tops is listening, fanatics, if you're listening, I think that they should change the red rookie program to be that a player does not have to win rookie of the year to be eligible for a payout. What it should be is their first award that they win is the hundred dollars.

Yeah. Their second award that they win is the 200 or 250. Like tier it based on the awards that they win, not that they have to win Rookie of the Year. Because what just I think is a, what I think is a miss is the fact that last year James Wood, he had a red rookie, he was not eligible to win rookie of the year. Yeah. This year Jacob Misarowski, he has a red rookie, he is not eligible to win rookie of the year. So those red rookie cards, fun cards to collect, they're nice looking refractors. Great. But I think there's a missed opportunity in the added market value that would come with. Okay, I'm going to bet that Miz at some point in his career is going to win a Cy Young.

Yes, I, I, James Wood is going to win an mvp. You're totally wrong. I don't know about that one. Have you seen his numbers this year? I know but I Have you seen his baseball savant page? Yes. However, I know his hard hit rate is through the roof this year but I don't know if he can maintain it. I want him to, don't get me wrong, I want him to. I pulled up, you know, I pulled a red James Wood rookie auto. So I mean like there's, there's, I believe in him. I think he hits a James Warren. I just don't know if he can sustain it. That's my problem.

He is literally hundredth percentile and expected weighted on base percentage. Yeah. Expected slugging expected or average exit velocity barrel percentage. He's 99th percentile and hard hit percentage. He again, he's going to be going up against Otani for the next five plus years. Realistically. So I know that that's going to be a hard thing. But James wood is also 23. Yeah. By the time that Otani hit his late 30s, James Wood is going to be in his prime. But. And Juan Soto's gonna be winning MVPs instead of him.

I hope so. What I just wish is that I think that you would have so much upside on the rookies and the red rookies if you were to just say hey, their first award is going to get you that hundred dollars yes. And that hundred dollars is how many guys will win two MVPs in their career. Right. Slim to none. But how many can win one? How many can win. I mean, like, it would be cool if even they. They brought it down to, like, they win a gold glove, it's 25. They win a silver slugger, it's 50. You know, just something like that or like, you know, they become an All Star, it's 20, you know, just like something fun that makes it, you know, like to where these cards, no matter the player, you're excited to hit it every single time.

It's fun. I worry it needs to be. What I do think is maybe part of the reason for why they did it. Is it. It can't be too complicated. Yeah, that, like, if there's a whole. The. The envy. Let's be honest. We are nerds who can sit here for an hour talking about baseball cards. Most people in the hobby are not that. Yeah. You. You talk to average people. And the average guy that comes into my stream or at a card show that does not understand the logistics of the MVP buyback program, which A plus one of the best innovations Tops has done in the hobby, period. I think that you got to be careful on not making it too complicated. But I do think that they're. If I were Tops, I would look at a way to maybe add some additional value or create an opportunity for that so that it's not just, oh, great, I pulled Mizarowski, who is putting together a Cy Young level season right now, and if he was eligible for Rookie of the Year, would probably run away with the award, but guess what? He's not. So now that card is only going to have whatever value the market puts on it.

Yes. Which will always kind of defeats the purpose of it. Yeah. I mean, that's why, like, I like the idea of the buy or the. The. Not the mvp, but what do they call them? The. The ones they recycle from the last year. Like the stamped mvp. The MVP stamp. It's the MVP buybacks that they like. It's the stamp ones. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, those. I think that was a great idea. I mean, things like that. So it's. It's trying to figure out what would work, you know, if. If they could do like a restamp style. I don't know, but I completely agree with you. I think there should be more to it. And one last little nugget that I feel like I have not heard anything about. Did you know that Jackson Holiday's out for the Season.

You mean Ethan Holiday? Ethan Holiday. Yes, I did. Why do I feel like nobody's talking about that? I feel like. I feel like it's because he's not what people expected or thought or hyped him up to be. So you mean like people expected him to be Jackson Holiday where like number one overall prospect in baseball. Massive, massive upside. He's still got good upside, don't get me wrong. But he is not the level of prospect that Jackson was. And I think he's defense. He's younger, though. Oh, I know. But still, his hit tool is not as nearly as developed. His upside is truly in the power department, which, like that will play well in cores. At the same time, he's a Rockies prospect. When is the last time that a Rockies prospect worked out?

I mean, all I'm saying is the highest. The two highly touted Rockies prospects that I can remember of the last few years, the two biggest ones are Zach Veen and Benny Montgomery. And the only reason I say Benny Montgomery is because he did all those funny inscriptions. Yeah. Yeah. I really like. I mean, I was a big. We were talking about the last one on stream. I was a big Yan Kill Fernandez fan. Thought he was gonna be really good like warming Burnabille. Yeah. Yep. Like. But it's the Rockies and that's part of the challenge is that like. I think that part of the, like, what market are you playing in? Is also very, very relevant. And I think that Holiday is both in a bad market and maybe does not offer the ceiling that people were necessarily thinking he was. So I think that that's maybe why because he did not end up being. I think the tops held him back for Bowman this year to make him like the chase. But unfortunately he has not ended up being the chase.

Yeah. So, yeah, I'm interested to see what happens with 26 Bowman pricing. If we see it come down a little bit or what. But I don't know. Or at least rocky spots start to fall a little bit. Because that's really tough. Yeah. Did you see, by the way, one of my last topics. I know we're getting a little long here. Did you see about Cards HQ and their expansion? Yes, I did. Very, very interesting. I'm curious. I. I truly go back and forth. I think it's a re. First off, the. I want to lead with Jeff built an incredible shop. I. I don't know if you've been to Cards hq.

No. Well, I went one day and they were closed the day that I was in Atlanta, which stinks. But yeah, I went, I was in Atlanta for a show and like, it was literally like before they were properly open to the public. They did like a trade night as a part of the show. Etc. Jeff, you know, was able to set up and I was able to get in before trade night started. So I have to fill some content. Amazing, amazing shop. What he and his team built is incredible. And I think that the concept of those existing in more places is really nice. I really like that they are bigger shops, or at least Cards HQ is a bigger shop with space to hang out. You know, his breaking pavilions and breaking arena. And like, I, I think that there's a lot of good things and a lot of things that, like when I inevitably, hopefully someday open up my card shop, I will model a lot of the things, I think, in the way that Cards HQ has done things. I think they did a lot of great things designing that shop. I also look at it and I say private equity and the corporatization of the local card shop. Yes. I think that I. Part of me worries again. I love what Card Vault by Tom Brady is doing in terms of the visibility for the hobby and being in all these places with high sports traffic and getting people into the door of collecting, I think it's a really, really good thing. But I also look at it and I say private equity exists to make money. Yes and no. I, I run a business, I want to make money, but I also balance that with trying to also prioritize my people.

Yes. Relationships. That's what I was going to say. Like, you know, whenever I go to my. One of my favorite things to do is when I go to my lcs, sometimes I'll spend five bucks, sometimes I'll spend a few hundred bucks. But what do I do every single time I chat with the owner? We chat cards, we chat sports, things like that. When you start getting to the point where you have dozens and dozens of shops, at that point you're dwindling your base of, you know, your. I don't want to say star employees, but basically people who are there because they love cards and they love working at the shop. Once you get that big, you're starting to get people who just need a job. So they're going to work a register. They're not going to be able to tell you, like, oh, my gosh, do you see this? This comp from last week? This is crazy. This card's going up. No. They're going to be like, Your total is $17.04. No, that relationship.

Well, I think that you can also. And this is one of the things that I think that I'm hopeful that you know, Jeff and his team obviously do an incredible job with content and I'm hopeful that they put that in the, that that is an important question in their mind of like having these shops have people leading them that is, that are like wanting to be a face within the hobby and making content and like doing this and that. Because the thing is you can have, you know, if, if, if Jeff Wilson were to reach out to me and say, hey, I heard that you're looking to move to this area and, and you are, and you're wanting to open up a shop. Why don't you open up a cards hq? I have a face, you know, I, I like making content. I, it would be, it would, it would be a conversation. Don't know whether or not I would do it. But like having somebody who wants to like be a face within the hobby and really do that I think is really, really good and really important. I have not seen a ton of, and this might be that I have not, you know, seen the right content or this or that. But like Card Vault by Tom Brady, I don't see content outside of Chris Costa, which Chris, great content. He does a lot of great stuff and he built incredible business. But I think that I would want those places to, I would want to make sure that whoever is running each of those shops is truly a hobby person who is wanting to, wanting to own and run a LCS and build the community that should come with it and not just have it be a high volume transaction space for cards.

Yes, 100% and private equity. My concern and I don't know the private equity firm that Jeff was able to get his money from and this and that. My concern is that private equity's number one driver is profitable. Yes. And I think that there needs to be a balance and my hope and Jeff to this point has been a great ambassador for the hobby like him or not. And I know a lot of people have a lot of polarized opinions on him. I don't know if you listen to his interview on the ball card show. I think he had a great interview on the ball card.

I did. It changed my perspective on him. It really, I, I think that it was a really, really good interview and I think that if you have not listened to it, anybody who's listening here, go listen to it because I really do think it, it shows who Jeff is as a person and there are going to be people who don't like him, regardless. In the way that there are people that don't like me regardless. I think it's silly. I like myself, but that's fine. I think that you just need to make sure. And Jeff has been a good ambassador for the hobby, and I just hope that Jeff continues that with the expansion of Card HQ and wanting to make sure that those new shops are just as good as Cards HQ is.

Yeah. If he comes up Salt Lake City, I will tell you what, I'll be there, you know. Yeah, I want to see it. I just hope that it stays the same style that the one in Atlanta is. You know, that same core versus, you know, like, you know, obviously, like, the further out you spread, the less you get from the original piece. So hopefully it's. As he expands these shops actually, like, end up being, you know, what. What Atlanta is intended to be. Yeah. Yeah. I. I'm very curious. I know. I've heard rumors of where, you know, the next. His second one is going to be very curious to see where it ends up.

Spread the room, spread the rumor. No. Oh, okay. I. I just hope. And this is one of the things I've been talking about this with, you know, Allison, and we are looking at eventually opening up a card shop. And I was like, as soon as we are at the point of, like, we're making, because it won't be in Nashville, I can tell you that. It's already so saturated. There's a lot of great shops here that, like, they've established themselves. And, like, I. I don't think that there is space right now to, you know, compete with ships or with Nash Cards. Like, I think that the. They have established themselves as fantastic shops and rightfully so. I'm not going to try and compete with that, but to the point of, like, not wanting somebody else to, like, like, I just hope that we're. And I'm not going to say we're removing yet, because I don't want to put any ideas in people's heads.

Alex is moving to the barren lands of Alaska and opening. That would be quite the choice. I love Alaska. Beautiful. But, like, having our branding and, you know, basically being able to announce when we move, I'm not going to start a shop. I'm going to give it a year or so, most likely in terms of, like, establishing myself in the community, getting to know where the right spot to do things is, etc. But I'm going to announce that we're doing it because I want to plant my flag and say, hey, this is happening. Don't. Don't you try and come to my territory. That's what I got to say.

I love it. I love it. You're. Hey, just. Just fight off all the haters. Yeah. Well, dude, it was fun. We're back. Yeah, glad to be back. We will be back next week. Look at May. Try and see if we can get a guest or somebody. You can try and have a com. You and I can have a conversation about that. I've got. I've got a nice list of. Of potential guests, and I think that the viewers would really like to hear some of these perspectives. Now, unfortunately, a little preview for you. By the way, you're going to have to do a couple of episodes yourself. We are traveling the last weekend of June into the first weekend of July, going to Iceland. So that'll be a lot of fun, but we'll have to find you some guests to help you carry the show. Well, we're back for a couple of weeks, and then Alex disappears for a couple of weeks to go on a family vacation.

That'll be awesome, though. Take plenty of pictures. Have fun. And I'm the camera everybody asks, you know, you know, your. Your video quality on the podcast or your content is so good. Like, what camera to use. I'm like, It's a, like, $3,000 camera because I. I like. I like photography. Like, this is my camera that I will use to, like, take nice pictures. Is your webcam not even set up? I have three webcams, dude. Okay. I literally have a designated podcast webcam now because I was so tired of changing the settings.

Good. But it's because I have, you know, I will take a lot of nice pictures and we can do a little slideshow when I get back. So show and tell time. Exactly. We can show until that. And some baseball cards, hopefully. So, anything else before we let you guys go, Trent? No, that's all. That's all I got, man. Awesome. Well, we appreciate you guys listening to this week's episode of the Hobby Handbook. It is good to be back. We'll catch you guys next week.