Booked to Last: Wrestling Card Hot Takes — Prizm vs. Flawless and the Cards You Can’t Buy

About this episode

<p>Brett joins Adam for a round of wrestling card hot takes.</p><p>Will Prizm become the defining product of the Panini WWE era?</p><p>Are wrestling card values understated because many of the best cards are locked inside collections?</p><p>They also break down the new Topps Universe release, WWE debut patches, PSA’s reopened grading tier, and recent sales involving Hulk Hogan, The Rock, X-Pac, and Becky Lynch.</p><p>Plus, they discuss Bronson Reed’s return, Oba Femi’s direction, Money in the Bank, and the stories shaping WWE.</p><p><br>Check out <a href="https://rbicru7.com/">RbiCru7</a> for all your wrestling and sports card needs!</p><p>Join Adam's <a href="https://www.patreon.com/cw/MainEventWrestlingCards">Main Event Wrestling Cards</a> group for free</p><p>Get exclusive content, promote your cards, and connect with other collectors who listen to the pod today by joining the Patreon: <a href="https://patreon.com/StackingSlabs?utm_medium=clipboard_copy&amp;utm_source=copyLink&amp;utm_campaign=creatorshare_creator&amp;utm_content=join_link">Join Stacking Slabs Podcast Patreon</a></p><p>Follow Ryan: | <a href="https://www.instagram.com/rbicru7/">Instagram</a> | <a href="https://rbicru7.com/">Website</a> | <a href="https://www.youtube.com/user/rbicru7">YouTube</a><br>Follow Adam: | <a href="https://x.com/SCUncensored">X</a> | <a href="https://www.instagram.com/wwegellman/">Instagram</a><br>Follow Stacking Slabs: | <a href="https://twitter.com/stackingslabs">Twitter </a>| <a href="https://www.instagram.com/stackingslabs">Instagram </a>| <a href="https://www.facebook.com/StackingSlabs/">Facebook</a> | <a href="https://vm.tiktok.com/cvNbNG/">Tiktok</a></p> <strong> <a href="https://www.patreon.com/c/StackingSlabs" rel="payment" title="★ Support this podcast on Patreon ★">★ Support this podcast on Patreon ★</a> </strong>

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Transcript

Machine transcript — exact wording may vary.

Foreign. Welcome back to Book to Last, the official wrestling card podcast here on the Stacking Slabs Network. Hosted by my good friends Adam Gilman and Ryan Bannister and brought to you by RBI crew 7. The biggest, the baddest, the best place to buy your wrestling card, singles and wax. You can do it at RBI crew7dot. I'm stepping in for Ryan in today's episode. He is out making deals at the Dallas card show Hot Tag. I'm coming in. We're covering a lot of ground. We get into the current product, we get into universe. Adam has drummed up a Hot takes wrestling card edition. The rematch coming back, coming in hot. Excited for today's conversation. Thank you so much for being here, sharing these episodes and all of your engagement. We would not be able to do it without you. If you want to show your support for the broader Stacking Slabs network, hit the follow button, tell a damn friend, run on over to the Patreon group. It is Beckett to last. Episode 36 coming at you.

Welcome to Book to Last, a wrestling card podcast for the card collecting community that goes from the top rope to top loaders. We are your hosts ryan Bannister of RBI Crew 7 and Adam Gelman of Main Event Wrestling Cards here on the Stacking Slab podcast network. Don't forget to like and subscribe here on Stacking Slabs, especially if this is your first time here joining up. You can find the patreon@patreon.com stacking slabs and you can follow Adam and I on social media at RBI Crew 7 and at WWE. Respectfully, let's ring that bell and get the slobber knocker on the way. All right. Welcome to episode 36 of Book to Last. I am Adam Gelman. Welcome back for all of our loyal listeners. Ryan Bannister this week is in Dallas for the card show and I had a work thing on our usual taping time frame. So my other tag team partner, we're going to use the Free Bird rule as we usually do. Brett McGrath, how are you sir? How's your week been?

It's been fun, crazy exciting all of the things. Was away for a few days with the family on vacation, but I definitely made sure I squeezed in time for some wrestling when I returned. So I feel like I'm all all up to speed on the happenings. There's so much happening across. I know the wrestling card space and I'm feel very fortunate to get the opportunity to fill in for Mr. Banister and talk some wrestling cards today. Yu-Gi-Oh Ryan will be back hopefully shortly. And best of luck to him in Dallas on his biannual trip, I think. So we're going to miss him this week because that's the fun stuff planned. But glad to have Brett join us. Let me get our agenda here up on the screen. And I think, like, for me personally, like, this week was a little weird and just getting into the opening pyro here because we had like a Sunday night's main event or whatever they want to call it, and I think the matches there weren't the story. It was the outcomes of everything and some of the returns. And I think there wasn't anything on the pay per view that was unexpected. It was just everything that happened outside of the matches is what drove the interest in the pay per view. So let's start with that because Bronson Reed is back and we've been teasing this for. On the podcast, we've talked about, like, his potential impact when he comes back. And as somebody who has a ton of cards out there and doesn't have a lot of value associated with him, like, it seems like he's poised to finally put the injuries behind him. He's in tremendous shape, and this could be an opportunity for collectors to get a good look at what Bronson Reed could do when he's literally in the best shape of his life. Made a huge impact on the Obafemi Bronson Bron Breaker. There's a lot of bronze in this match, and I was. I knew it was coming, but I. I was sad that they didn't give Ron Breaker the one-of-one I know you hate him, but I think, like, I think Obafemi needed to feel a loss here so that we can start this and people will argue. No, you don't put the guy under in a spot that he's in. You got to do with a DQ finish, whatever. I disagree. I think you can take losses when they mean something, and I think this would have meant a lot for the Vision, which has been decimated by injuries. I don't know what you thought, what your thoughts are.

Yu-Gi-Oh I. I will. I will try to play both sides where I say something very, very nice and then I say something maybe right. Not approach to a promo. Yu-Gi-Oh I think that, first of all, it's great to see Bron Bronson Reed back. He's an incredible talent. Like, he is in the best shape of his life. Like, great character. I think he. There was a void in the Vision without him there. I mean, you can't forget that this guy, you know, pinned Roman Reigns and I Think that is really, really important. And I think he's got cards and I think, like, there will be a moment where he's probably on a stage a little bit bigger than he is right now from a character perspective. So great to see him back. I think everyone expected some sort of non finish in that match. I think the issue that I have are it's twofold. I think number one, it is surprise, surprise with the Brawn Breaker character. And maybe it's a me thing and I just have this complex but like, I really, really struggle with this badass and what he's actually supposed to be and who he is actually for. And I don't want to offend any Breaker fans out there, but like, the moment for me was really on Monday Night Raw when he's backstage and he's talking to Paul Heyman and you know, he has this assumption that he took care of the Vision, took care of business, and that Obafemi is out of sight, out of mind. And it's just like, like, as an audience member, I'm like, is he being serious? Is he being facetious? Like, come on, like, we've all watched wrestling, so like there's just like this constant disconnect with. With me and his character. He's an unbelievable athlete. Like, he's. He's great performer in ring, obviously, but like, I struggle with that and I think overall, like just I struggle with the Obafemi booking and I struggle from it from a one perspective. Like, you literally just retired the biggest force in probably WWE history in Brock Lesnar. Like, take him out free match series, you got the loss in between and it's over. See a Brock Lesnar Obafemi continue to scale. And to me, it's like any feud not with a WWE Champion or a name is big or about on the same level as Brock Lesnar. I struggle with so like this overall program with the Vision. I'm. I just struggle with it because we all know what's eventually going to happen. Like, Oba's gonna, you know, take out every individual member in a match and then he's gonna base Breaker and he's gonna be break. And it's just like, I don't know, maybe it's me watching too much wrestling over the years.

I'm still having fun watching it, but like, I don't know, I'm just like, I wish things were different for Obafemi right now. Well, I think like you nailed sort of the Braun Breaker situation is like, he is like this incredible talent, but I think like Obafemi sort of exposed him on the mic and was like, he's got some major holes and gaps in his game. And I think, like, it has nothing to do with what he's performing in the ring. It's all about, like, the other aspects of his character, which I think WWE is doing both of them a disservice by making this the future of WWE match, which I. I don't think you call it that. You let other people make that assumption, and we've said that a number of times. But I think I wanted. I wanted Oba to lose only if you're truly invested in this vision fact. And I think, like, it seems like they are, and I'm not seeing. I don't see it. I don't like Logan Paul. I think he's an amazing wrestler. He's hurt. So, like, he can't really add anything physically. So, like, I don't see the reason to invest in this faction yet. But coming, bringing Bronson re back and maybe putting him into a feud with somebody that isn't Obafemi would give them the opportunity to put him over like the beast that they did when he first came back where he was just Tsunami every after Tsunami, after Tsunami. But when you put him in Obafemi and you're like, as an audience member, you like, say, I need to see that this Mega Monster can fall. And Yu-Gi-Oh I. And. But. And I. And you mentioned the loss to Brock Lesnar. I saw that as the worst possible decision to bring that feud back. So I'm going to sort of wipe that from my memory. But I don't know, man. Like, this was not the right call. And I was like, and you can't just dump him into a feud with Roman Reigns unless you're ready to put the belt on him, which I don't think they are yet. I think they'll do that at WrestleMania. So I don't know, man. I think they've really Beckett themselves into a corner. And, like, the only person who could potentially lose a feud to Obafemi and not really be completely dismembered by that is Bron Breaker. And that's just stupid in my opinion.

But either way, Yu-Gi-Oh One final note on this is, like, I have thought about this a lot, and I think about, like, the Raw roster. And when I'm watching Raw, like, what excites me as a fan the most and undeniably, Roman Reigns. But Roman Reigns isn't there every week, so it's like, well, who's next? And it's like, so with Femi and it's like without doubt and that is for a lot of the audience who watches. And it's like when you start a raw and you after a Sunday night where Oba gets destroyed and then you start a raw in literally the same backyard where Obafimi was a college athlete, right, and you destroy him in front of all of these fans who have just been waiting to watch him and come out and destroy people. Like, I don't know, I just struggle, I'm struggling with. I'm sure eventually you hit fast forward and we'll all be happy again, but right now it's hard. I. I don't think any of it impacts Obafemi's cars, but I just don't love the booking.

I. I think this is a very weak period of time for the booking right now. I. It's not as bad as it was prior to when we were in that rut where Smackdown was bad and Raw was kind of like bl. Like it's not that bad but I think like when you were like on fire coming in and out of SummerSlam and then this is kind of where you head. I think like it's an inevitable valley before an eventual peak at war games or money in the bank or whatever. But I do like what they're trying to do with the triple threat here of Liv and Vacair and Becky Lynch. Not just because I'm a homer, but because I think that women's division has lacked a story for so long and Liv was just on the shelf waiting. That care is back and they've got this like three headed monster which I think all talented, all can drive a story. As much as I dislike Liv Morgan overall, like she is the perfect foil for these, this sort of heel side of things and you've got a tweener, a face and a heel. It works. And I hate triple threats but this is one of the times where it works. So that was really cool. But before we get on to that, I totally skipped over Randy Orton and Cody Rhodes because the way that that match ended with all the blood and all of the stuff that went down, like I thought the match was just kind of meh but like the, the overall like punt story and Cody not being able to pull the trigger. At what point are they going to stop teasing this and actually just full on just go Cody and Randy together as the two man power trip of the heels and just let them run rampant or let Cody just completely go away and do Street Fighter stuff as Banister has always said, but I don't know, like, I'm just not, I don't like Cody in this role of being like this sheriff. And even though Randy came out ahead through underhanded means, do perfect 2009 Orton, as Bannister texted us, like, I like, I like that. I like Randy being back to his old conniving ways. But Cody just, I don't know, man. He just doesn't resonate with me the same way. I don't know about you.

Yu-Gi-Oh I think I have intrigue on this storyline and where it can lead to. I think I, I am, I think just based on our conversations, way more of a Cody fan than, than, than you would consider yourself. But I, I'm, I'm with you. Like something is, something different is needed and I, I have seen over the course of programming these seeds have been planted. So I'm trying to be patient as a wrestling fan. I mean, I mean there could be worse people that he's dancing with right now. Dancing with one of the all time greats. So I'm excited about the direction because it's a little bit of a mystery for me right now, but I am excited to talk about this, this women's triple threat potential because this is probably exciting me the most right now.

Yu-Gi-Oh And there's, and it's, and it's needed. Right. Like, I think all of these people have been waiting for something as we've said, and I just, I hope they don't like. I know what's, I know the path. Right. It's going to be Becky and, and Stephanie Vacair either have a match or Becky and Liv have a match and Stephanie gets involved the same way that Becky does and then it leads to a triple threat of money in the bank or whatever do I, I think money in the banks. The match itself, the, the ladder match, the women's match suffers without Stephanie Vicair in that match. So I am curious how that all works out.

Yu-Gi-Oh I, I want to talk, I definitely want to talk about money in the bank. But like there's, I want to. I, there was a moment I had while watching Raw in that. The, the live and Vacair match and I want to get a pulse check from you because it, it reminded me of something. But first of all, like the match between Liv and Vacara was fantastic. Even though finish was what it was. I think that's the match that they probably, if they had the time they would have had at WrestleMania. But there was a moment and it just brought me right back to the attitude era, which was this is a good, good. What I really wanted is when I saw Becky coming. Coming down, it was very much in, like, the. The Stone Cold role.

Yes. Like. Like, I. I just went instantly to, like, the Foley one-of-one when mankind got the title for the first time in Stone Cold's role. Like, I saw Becky and then it got cut short and it didn't go the full way, which was fine. I'm like, okay, maybe this is. This is leading to something bigger. So I don't know. Like, that Mo thought came in my head, and I just think we're all ready for the man to be back. Like, we're. We all want. We all want it. Like, it's been too long. Like, having her at the top of the mountain with the title is where we're eventually headed, I think, undeniably. So. I'm ready for that to take shape just because we. We've seen all the different iterations of Becky. She's been great in all of those roles, but we all just want the man back.

Yu-Gi-Oh I think it's really hard to. I mean, she's. She likes playing a heel. I think she said that on a few different podcasts because it gives her license to do things that. That they don't get to do as a face. But now that Roman Reigns is doing what he's doing, where he's basically a heel in a face role, I think it gives her this tweener ability to sort of be. Be the man of. Of 2019, where it's like she's all over Charlotte Fleer and she's, you know, standing on people's throats and whatever. Maybe they go back to that, but either way, I mean, like, I. I can't wait for that. Stephanie Vacair is an amazing talent in the ring. I think Liv has come a million miles. Becky gets good matches out of everybody. And I think that if they put this triple threat on tv, whether it's on a money in the bank or if they do it through other things, I will be there with bells on, as I think a lot of people have been waiting for all sides of this, but I don't know. It's like, I think Liv's cards have taken a dip because people are just overall sick of her just sitting around and doing nothing. Vicar's cards took a major hit when she lost at WrestleMania. We said that was going to happen, but she's young and she's athletic, and she's going to come back and do awesome stuff, and I think this is Just the first of many of those things. I don't think they push her back down the car, which is good because I was worried about that and I think it'll help her values now to rebound a little bit. I actually had some Vicaire cards shipped home from bless from the first time ever because I have confidence in her again now that she's back. And they didn't put her right back into a feud with like Maxine Dupree or something, which is great. So anyways, like. But the women's mid card I think on both shows has, has done nicely with Tatum Paxley debuting. And so Ruka finding a little bit of ground to get into this money in the bank match. Lyravakkuria finding her psycho side or whatever it is. Like, I think they're, they're cooking on the women's side and I think everything else, like they can only focus on one thing at once. It's like we can't have too many focuses here and like they, they really realize like women's division got hit hard after Wrestlemania and they were just like, okay, we need to focus on this. So hopefully this gives them a little bit of juice coming into money in the bank. But Sol Ruka punches her ticket on Raw. I don't know who else they're going to put in this. I have a feeling Tatum Paxley probably gets in and because they want to give her a spotlight and I would guess one other member of the Judgment day, whether it's Raquel or Roxanne gets in. So then who else is going to fill this out?

So I don't know if you have seen this. So I. There is a match announced for Mexico City. So NXT champion Kalani Jordan is in, Lola Vice is debuting and Raquel, they're all. There's a three, three way, I think. I think in that match, I would imagine Lola Vice will one-of-one that match. You can't debut her and then like, Yu-Gi-Oh Yu-Gi-Oh so. So there's that. Now when I was thinking about this in prep for this, I was just like, who makes the most sense to one-of-one with the women's money in the bank? And you mention her name and dude, I think it's time. Pull the. Pull time to pull the card on Roxanne Perez. I just think her winning that patch auto has. There is storyline potential. You saw her involvement in helping Liv one-of-one I just think, can you imagine the dynamic of her having the briefcase and let's say Liv still holding the title and she's in Judgment Day. They've Been planting those seeds. So I don't know. I think she's Zebra underrated and she's playing kind of sidekick. I just think it's time to just like, let her spread her wings and let's see her go.

I think that would be. So I said, you can't have. So when they did the tournament, the tournament with, you know, the people were saying, well, Raquel is going to one-of-one queen of the ring and that's going to be the vehicle. I don't think that that's the way to go. Money in the bank. You can draw it out and you don't have to do it in a stupid tournament. You can do it like through storyline. I think that's an interesting call. I love what Roxanne Perez does in the ring and I think she. If you give her the Runway, she'll. She'll do well. So I. I don't disagree with you on that. I think they're probably gonna go smackdown. And I think because Chelsea Green is injured, I don't know, like, it's. It's hard because I think Liv is an easy target because people are just generally dissatisfied with her booking. But I don't. There's. This is wide open. I think, like, they could go smackdown. They could go raw if he time, huh?

Tiffy time. Taking the title from Chelsea. I do you. So here's the other thing. No one's failed a cash in yet. On the female side, is this the year where they, like, say, okay, Tiffany, you go and you fail, like, or Becky, you go take it and you get bat blindsided by Stephanie Vacair and you don't get to do whatever. I don't know, but I think it'll be interesting to see how. But on the men's side, as long as Obafemi is not in the patch auto success. So, like, keep Oba out of the match and you're fine. Like, anybody can one-of-one and it doesn't really matter because either you're going after punk and that's an easy way to take the title off of him, or you're going after Roman and you're probably gonna. So I don't know.

Yu-Gi-Oh they. On the men's side, I think it's. There's a lot of interesting directions. The. The match that was announced. The next one is Austin theory, Big cast, big in Javon Evans. And it's like, I feel like you have to have Javon Evans in the money in the bank match. But then it's also like, big cast would also Provide the base that you need in that sort of match. But I feel like you have to have Javon Evans. So, like, I'll. I'll. I'll pin him in to one-of-one And then I was thinking about, like, who would be the most intriguing money. Men's Money in the bank winner right now. And I have two names, and I want to get your reaction to them. So the first name is Solo. I mean, can you imagine Solo having the money in the bank in this current storyline?

Yes. Looking at Roman Reigns each week doing his shtick on the mic, I think that would work. The other name. Incredible. Yu-Gi-Oh the. The other name is. And I feel like they've just been putting them in spots, which leads me to think that there might be something bigger and it could be men's Money in the bank. And that's Finn Balor. I just think Finn Balor, being money in the. Winning the money in the bank, the way his character is and can be slow plotting and methodical. Like, there's a lot of interconnected stories that you could tell him. Like, so for me right now, if. If you give it to Finn and you give it to Solo, I'm happy either way.

One of those works for me. Yu-Gi-Oh Finn deserves. I hate using the word deserves. That's not the right word. Finn's storyline deserves a payoff of him at least attempting a cash in on Punk. And I think that. And Punk would be all for it because I know he. He wants Finn to get more attention. He said that a few times. But I, I have no issue with either of those picks. Solo. I mean, like, I want Solo because he's awesome, but I want Finn because he. I think it makes sense. So anyways, all right, let's. Let's move on to some card market news because we've got a lot of it universe. Early breaks have started. They have previewed a ton of cards and I watch Breaker Mayfield, Alex break a couple of cases early. I've seen the Megas and the Blaster stuff. You know, I. I don't know how I feel yet. Like, we're still very early on. But I want to start off by saying two things. One, these slammed case hits that Topps previewed this week are, you know, they're very like HDR type of approach where they have that artistic look to the photograph. And I think they actually are art driven cards, which I jump through hoops to collect those Topps of cards. I love sports art. I think these are so well done. So in that preview, I. I knew it was coming And I could not wait to just have it live. Those cards are so awesome.

Is. Is. Is this artwork done via Rob Schamberger? Because it looks like it. It is not so. Rob Schamberger is exclusive to Yu-Gi-Oh right now. WWE ended their relationship with him a few weeks a few years ago, which I was devastated to hear, because I love Rob Schamberger's work. I have it on the wall behind me. I haven't. I have the original. So those two paintings. One is the original Becky lynch, that's Shamberger, and the other one is Stone Cold. It's a print that's signed by him. That's Shamburger. I love Rob's work and I'm. I was sad when he left, but I think this is a guy named Justin and I can't think of his last name, but it was called out on, like, one of my posts. And I think the cars look absolutely awesome.

Are these case hits? Do they. Are they paralleled at all? They're not parallel. I think they're case hits. Yu-Gi-Oh Okay. I. I don't know that. My guess is that they're case. Sorry. Okay. I saw the. Yu-Gi-Oh I've seen the Undertaker and the Stone Cold, and these things are incredible. I'm curious to see what their print run is, because that'll influence probably my interest whether I go hard or not. But. Yu-Gi-Oh these are the coolest things I've seen from this product so far. They. It looks good. I'm just. My level. I'm. I'm still, like, undecided on, like, what my level of interest, if at all, is for this product.

Yu-Gi-Oh I think the. There's a lot of stuff that people don't know about this product that they will find out very, very shortly that I'm. I'm not going to share it here on a public forum, but you'll get to see it very quickly and people are going to lose their. Lose their. Their on this. It's going to be awesome. But I think overall the autographs this year are almost a complete downgrade from 2025, in my opinion. I don't like the Legends design as much. I definitely don't like the title marks as much. And I think the horizontal auto relics, I'm not a huge fan of either. I like vertical cards, especially when you're using the 1 inch by 1 inch swatches. They are. They're. They're labeled as event used, which I think is. Is great. If. If that's, you know, something that's going to continue to be a focus for tops, that's great. But I think like, you know, these are, these are meant to be. It seems like a flagship type set. So like, you know, I want to see, you know, cards that look good for the affordable nature of the product. I think they've accomplished that. I think Universe does. But I'm not an, I'm not a flagship type collector. I like high end stuff. I like shiny cards. These are neither of those things. It doesn't really fit into my PC. But my favorite case hits that Topps has done are the Kaiju inserts and the Ultraviolet. And I think these slammed inserts remind me very much of the Ultraviolet case hits from Chrome. I really hope we get those in 2027. But if this is what we get instead, I'm, I'm not going to complain because they look amazing. But I mean there's more inscriptions, you know, more relic autos. Like I don't see anything generally special about Universe, but at least it doesn't look like complete crap.

I would love to get your perspective as the man in the weeds on the fact that like if this is the flagship product, why, why are we getting the flagship product two times in the same calendar year? I think about like the, the explanation on football. Chrome is easy, right? Like they got the license so they released it and then now they're like releasing Chrome for the, for the new year with the new draft class and now they're on track to like be on schedule right before the season comes out. But like I can't connect the dots on why there's two Universe sets.

Yu-Gi-Oh there. The original Universe was supposed to come out in 2025. Like middle of 2025. It got delayed dramatically for I, I don't even know why. Like they, they never really explained to me or explained publicly like why it was so delayed. But I have a feeling it, it had to do with signings and redemptions and the usual stuff that delays a product. So that came out in February and I thought it's overplayed my expectations. I thought the autographs were, were great. I love the cards and then everything else the case hits the base cards, the inserts I hated. So like now we're flipping it and I love all the non autographed stuff and I hate the autograph stuff. But to your point, like I, I think it's a mistake to release these so close together. They do feel like different products which at least they've accomplished that. Like the title marks and everything does look different enough that it doesn't feel like Copy and paste, which is great. But Yu-Gi-Oh I like, I don't know if this is the flagship. I, I assume that they're going to put out the most affordable product that they can find and if this is it, fine. But you gotta like if this is coming back for year three, you've got to push this out into well into 20.

I got one more question or 2027. Sorry, one more question. Back to you on Just like Universe. If you are a WWE collector who has collected in the Panini era and you're still collecting that stuff and you haven't quite moved over to the top stuff yet, like how should collectors be thinking about this set in comparison to maybe something from the Panini years? It's Revolution. I mean like that's. This is this, this is Revolution. But it's double the price of where Revolution came out at and the content is completely different on the hit side of it. But I think the cards themselves remind me of Revolution. I don't think that Ops has settled on what their Kaboom or Downtown is going to be yet, especially in wrestling. I think in sports are getting closer. Right. So I think like they found some really big hits in, in that people have really loved with the GPK and a few other things. But I don't know man, like I, I think this is revolution. I don't think this has staying power. I think once Stadium Club comes out people will forget about this. And it's unfortunate because I, I don't think there's enough wrestling products that come out a year for that to happen. I think you should make every one of them mean something and I think that this because it's hot on the heels of 2025 universe, I think it, it suffers and that's unfortunate.

Yu-Gi-Oh I'm a, I'm a Revolution guy so I hadn't quite connected those dots. But Yu-Gi-Oh makes sense. We all just moving on here so we can get to some of the fun stuff here as well. We got our first look at a signed Top debut patch for Ricky Saints. We knew what the design looks like thanks to all the previews that they've put out in the cards from Chrome last year. So just so everybody understands, Tops in every sport uses either a Chrome like a readily available sku. So it's not like Royalty where there's only like a couple thousand cases. They want to use the largest allocation of cards to release these debut pages to make it more accessible in their minds. And so every year I believe that Topps Chrome, every release will have the the batch of debut patches. Last year we had five. This year there's going to be a significantly higher amount of those, including Obafemi and of course, Ricky Sains. I have also confirmed that I believe Danhausen is in this set as well, and I think that that's going to be a major chase. But these cards look awesome. I love the design they chose for these. It looks regal. Looks awesome. Not William Regal, like, just, you know, but I think. I think they look great. My question to you is like, if you had to make a decision of like the Obafemi debut patch or the Obafemi WrestleMania 42 patch, which will be likely released in the same time frame, one of them is a meaningful debut. The other one is him retiring, quote unquote, Brock Lesnar at WrestleMania 42 before all the other crap happened. Which one are you choosing?

This is such an awesome question because my. My wheels were spinning and I think I've landed. I would rather. And sorry all you rookie only collectors or first only collectors. I have to go WrestleMania because I saw it and I saw the moment and how big it was, and it was against Brock Lesnar. And when I think of Obafemi right now as a character, I'm not thinking about his debut. I'm thinking about that WrestleMania match. So the day these. Dude, this, this. This Ricky Saints image look, this card looks incredible. Like, it looks so good. This gets me really excited. But I think I'm still going WrestleMania patch with Oba.

It would it shocked you to believe that I'm. I think I'm on the same page. I. I love what they did at WrestleMania to such a vast degree. Now I know that people will say, oh, there's going to be a million. Like Obafemi is going to headline a bunch of WrestleManias. Like, what difference does this patch make versus the eight others that are going to come? Hopefully that's a problem we experience. If it isn't. I think that one card is just such a moment in time and WWE is a company built on. But Yu-Gi-Oh I mean, like, I see the understanding of like debut patches is the standard for baseball and now football and basketball. I mean, like, we saw the hype around Cooper flag, we saw the hype around God knipples card and Dylan Harper's card all being in the same auction on Fanatics collect. Like, I get it. But as a wrestling fan, the debut wasn't as big of a deal. And I think because he had been on nxt, it didn't feel like we were getting something crazy. That WrestleMania was crazy. And I loved every minute of it. And it reminds me of that nostalgia. To your point, you watched it happen.

Time for. Time for. First of all, I can't wait to see those things run side by side and see which one prevails. Second time for some cross sport comparison time. I'm thinking about this and I tried to think of a name, like if this were like debut patches in football and then also like, if they had Zebra bowl patches. Right. Zebra bowl would be WrestleMania. Like, I think of like a character like, or not a character, but an athlete. Like Cooper De Jean on the Eagles because he was a rookie and he got the Zebra Bowl. It's like, which one would Eagles fans rather have?

That is a perfect comparison. Yu-Gi-Oh Which one? And I like, how do you deny the Zebra bowl pack? Like, that's the. The biggest stage of them all. Much like WrestleMania is the biggest stage of them all. So I don't know. Like, I think WrestleMania always wins the more I think about it. Because he's the granddaddy of them all. Yu-Gi-Oh I can't disagree. And that's a great comparison. Kudos to you for coming out, pulling that out of you know where without any prep. But I think like the Cooper gene, like, comparison works because, like the debut patch for Cooper. Cooper Naji. God, I can't say his name. Cooper Dean would represent like, like the game. Yes, but like, that Zebra Blue Ice his moment. Right.

And. But the problem with Zebra Blue Ice there's only two teams. So like, you're. You're very limited in the amount of players that are going to be valuable. But to the same argument, there's probably limited number of rookies that are going to be valuable in the debut patch as well. So I don't know, half dozen of one, six of the other. But man, what a great. This is like a topic that I think will be argued on many a different show for a very long time. And I hope we get Zebra cool patches or World Series batches or something because Topps really did capture lightning in a bottle here with that type of experience. For the Collector, I want to quickly touch on PSA because I think this is big news and I think it's bigger news that, like, usually something like this happens and it's literally like everywhere everybody's talking about it. I haven't, I haven't felt like the, you know that meme where it's Homer sitting in the bar and it's all. And he looks crazy and everybody else is the same person. Like, that's what I, I usually when PSA releases news, everybody talks about the same talking points. I think it's different in wrestling. And I'll, I want to get your opinion here because they've reopened a new tier of grading. It is not value. So we're not the 25 value here yet, but they have opened a 60 tier. It has a thousand dollar limit, which for wrestling is. Most of the cards you would grade, they were getting a little bit beyond that in some cases. But like, I, I think this is a, a pretty impactful piece of news for wrestling collectors as much as it is for sports card collectors and obviously Pokemon collectors. But I don't know, man, like, I, I don't grade cards, so like, this really isn't my thing. But for somebody like you who grades a lot of cards, like, and, and you have DSA as a sponsor, which I didn't connect the dots until about 35 minutes ago, like, how do you react to something like this in a, in the context of this podcast versus your other.

Yu-Gi-Oh no, I think it's, it is generally really good news for all collectors and I think the impact may be greater in wrestling and wrestling cards based on just dollar values. So, Yu-Gi-Oh man, I think it's good. I think, like it's, I don't think PSA wanted to close off service levels, but when demand reaches a point like as a business, you gotta like redefine your operations and then hopefully slowly open things back up. And that's what we're seeing here. So I think the $60 price point right now and with, you know, 90 to 100 business days is pretty reasonable. I know people love to just go back and say, well, you know, back a few years ago I could grade. This would be like 1112 bucks a card. Well, we're not considering the changes in the dynamics of the current market and just life in general. Everything is more expensive. So I like the update, I think it's reasonable and I think it'll be really, really good. For wrestling card collectors who do like to grade their cards. It seems to me a pretty affordable price point based on kind of the current landscape.

And even though I don't grade cards and don't really support grading overall, like, I want to see the pop report grow. I think the reason that I want to see that is because it lends credence to the growth of our area. And I think one of the main things that wrestling card suffers from is that when you pull up a Kaboom PSA 10 and you look at the pop report there's only 25 total graded and like we need to see because everything functions off of card ladder and PSA is the backbone of this hobby whether I like it or not. And I think like if we can't see more pop report grow in the higher visibility wrestling cards that are out there. It's going to continue to be a boon for wrestling cards to jump into some of the mainstream areas that we'd like. And I think that's really where the closing off those value tiers for a while really hurt wrestling cards. To your point, I think it was nest. I don't think that there's any debate about that it was necessary. But opening it back up at $60 where most of the wrestling cards that you would grade fall within that category, especially from a chrome perspective. Like the only thing is, I hope wrestling collectors understand like Topps does not have a great track record of producing PSA 10 level cards in this year's or last year's Chromes. Like the, the gem rate on those cards is very low. And I think you have to be very selective. And this only proves that PSA wants you to be more selective with the cards that you send to them. So be careful. Don't just send a package of a thousand cards because you think you're, you're guaranteed at least some tens. Like the grading aspect of this is be more thoughtful. And I think wrestling collectors still have a lot of room to grow there for sure.

And I think one of the important elements when you've got people new or maybe degrading people, always just think about like the technical grade of the cards. But I think the most important part is the authentication of the card. We have seen fakes and counterfeits, especially with case hits in the wrestling spaces. This continues to grow and more money comes in. It's like it is good, especially on that profile of card to see them go through the authentication process to make sure that if you're a buyer on the open market, you're not buying a phony card. Like no one wants to do that. And I think the addition of grading into, in the mix and especially at a price point that's somewhat reasonable can help kind of stop some of those bad actors and bad things that are going on in the space.

I like when it comes to grading, that is the one aspect of the platform that the PSA provides I think is completely underrated. And I think that is a major, major factor, especially for cards that are graded multiple times without a serial number like a, you know that that you know, wrestling cards have now been exposed to more often. I got to play this game with Ryan a couple of months, maybe like a month and a half ago. And I wanted to play it with you because I, I want to hear your perspective on some of these things. So let's play a game. We're going to go wrestling Car hot takes. So just like hot ones. The wing eating contest, I adapted it for wrestling cars. We're going to do a rematch here and I want to offer some spicy takes I've Beckett up from social media or from other places and I want to get feedback from you and I on some of these things. These are things that I have put on slides that I've pulled from other places. So it's not just all me. You'll, you'll know when it's me, trust me. But I think some of these are fun. So we're going to start with a mild take. This is one Pepper and I said the break from constant product releases, so we had what like six or seven to start the year, isn't in actually going to help Universe be more successful this time around. So there's been a break. There's been about three, four weeks. Even longer I think since the last wrestling product came out. Now we're back on with Universe. I don't think that that's going to help it the same way it did last time around. And I, I think this is a mild one Pepper take. But I'm just curious what your thoughts.

Yu-Gi-Oh and I, I tend to agree and I'm mostly. This is coming from a personal perspective where the addition of a second Universe set really doesn't move the needle for me. Now if it were a product I hadn't seen before, you know, some, something, you know, interesting that Topps might offer, then I'd be ready to go. Like, I'd be buying into some breaks. But I, I don't really have any feelings towards another Universe set. So there's some, like, we're getting more cards. There's the Panini era. So like, there's plenty to be busy with. Like I don't collect based on what's available or what's newly available. And that's just me. So I, I tend to side with this take.

Yu-Gi-Oh I, I think last time around Universe greatly benefited from being the first product back after that extended break without products. But I think the break could have actually been longer and it wouldn't have hurt the, the industry. The, the trajectory that we're on. It did last time we were Sort of in this spot. But I think anyways, like for Universe, the draw is that it's affordable, more affordable than a royalty. It's probably more affordable than a chrome. And, and most cases in. In a lot of different, you know, perspectives. But I think it's. It's also like the draw is like there, there really isn't another sort of alluring factor to this other than those case hits, which I think are really cool this year, but I, I think last year really benefited from that. So. All right, we're going to go up to a two pepper take here. All the attention is on Flawless as the top Panini product. And I know I'm this one, I'm speaking to the fl, so I get it. But the hot take is that Prizm will be the standard when we look back at the Pani.

Yu-Gi-Oh I. So I tend to. And this is outside of wrestling, this is across sports. In the Panini era, I tend to try to consider which product has the strongest force. And by strongest force, I mean brings in the highest volume of collectors, dealers, flippers, breakers, all the things. And I always go back to the Prizm products. Not saying Flawless isn't fantastic and phenomenal like it certainly is. There's a certain prestige to that product. There's also a certain price point to that product where that's going to eliminate a large segment of the collecting audience. So Prizm is just, it's more. More accessible. There's. There's more. The checklist is bigger. Obviously. Like, there's limitations too, and there's only so many of certain things. But, man, I can't say enough about the three year run and how truly limited that is, especially if you're specializing around specific parallels within that product. Now, I know Flawless even more limited, but I think it being even more limited makes it harder for me to say that is the one. And I just think, I don't know, you know, I'm a Prizm guy. I can't, I can't make the case outside of Prizm So, Yu-Gi-Oh I'm. I'm Prizm all day. I just think they knocked it out of the park with the photography too. And that's another understated element. It's just. Oh, Steve, so good.

Yu-Gi-Oh Yu-Gi-Oh So I put this on here just so Ryan would throw his. Throw his phone across the room when we, when he's listening to this Banister is a big, Flawless fan and rightfully so. I think Brett is as well. You've bought Flawless cartoons? Yes. Yu-Gi-Oh we've both. I'm heavily invested in Flawless And I love the product. But I am also just as over indexed on Prizm My entire collection is shiny. When we first. And the reason I, the reason I put this in here is because when we first talked in 2021 and you had me on the podcast the first time, it was right after the announcement that Panini was coming into the space. And I said Prizm coming to WWE was a gigantic. And it still is a gigantic deal. You've Beckett up some monster cards recently. You've shared them on your Instagram from this set and you've even just for your football going back, I mean this has always been your focus. But Yu-Gi-Oh I don't think people really recognize the impact that Panini had during their three years and especially with Prizm because I've said this more times. I can count now. There are more goals in the first year of Top Prom WWE than there are the three years of Peony Prizm And I just think people are vastly undervaluing this. So yes, this is my take and this is me speaking on behalf of a few of us, but it's something that, and I am heavily invested, so keep that in mind. Yes, this is, this is self serving in a lot of different ways, but I think it's really worth a consideration here. Like everybody's talking about Flawless right now. The star swatches are driving a massive resurgence in Flawless interest. But I just, I can't get over the impact that the Panini Prizm has had. And I think long term, even though Flawless is one and done, like people will look back with kinder eyes on Prizm than they ever have in today's world. So. All right, we're going to get, we're going to get really spicy here. This is a three pepper take. Beyond the current auctions, the best cards in wrestling are not for sale. Hurts, which hurts. That's not the hot thing, which hurts the data around how valuable things really are in this. And I think the, this is something you've talked about on your podcast a few times. So I wanted to get your take here.

Yu-Gi-Oh no, I love this and I, I think about this all the time and I've had to make massive decisions about this in my own buying and I'm, I'm very hopeful. Like I'll have a, the biggest card I've ever purchased. I'm, I'm hopeful I'll have access to it so I can share it soon. And it is a wrestling card. Spoiler alert. But there was, when I made the purchase and bought the card I like, there was no like card ladder comps to validate or say this is what you should spend it. There wasn't that at all. Like there wasn't anything close. Like I had to go based on my own intuition, my, my conviction what was happening in adjacent products and say, I believe in this, I want this. I'm going to pay this much for it. And I think this could, this can be very discouraging for individuals who are trying to buy cards and sell those cards for a premium right away. But I think it might be the best thing for those individual collectors who are in this trying to find opportunities and buy cards for the long term. Eventually, like inevitably, like data is going to be populated. It's just going to take, there's going to be a long tail to it. It's going to take time. But I always say this, like if you believe in wrestling cards and you see something and it's not available publicly or it's never been available publicly and you want it like pay the premium. Like there's, you can't go to direct comps on anything in wrestling outside of maybe case hits and this and that. But Yu-Gi-Oh I, I think this is such a great topic and I just think it's so important for collectors in wrestling to like realize that sometimes you got to pay more and sometimes there's not going to be a comp to. To help validate it for you.

Yu-Gi-Oh I think that's a really key point. And I, I talked about this on main event wrestling cards this week. I said that new people coming into the space are going to be very behind because all of the good stuff is already bought and locked away and it is not available for sale. And it was funny because somebody actually came to me on Instagram recently and said, hey, can I buy this Becky lynch card off you? I'm like, no. Like, no, you can. And like, you know, it's not me being an about it. It's just the fact that that's my identity here, that's my PC. And I think there's a lot of people in wrestling cards that are like that. Where in sports there's, there's always a way to like at least sneak an offer in there. Like, oh, it's, you know, it's not for sale. But you know, I'll, I'll hear you out type of thing. Like, I'm not even willing to hear people out of this. And I think there's a lot of people out there that, you know, lock away the best cards in wrestling. And I think that lack of data, like you Said like if you're. If your purchase was publicly available. And I don't know if it will be eventually if you partner with card ladder to get that added or if you even want it to be. But I don't think if. Because that data doesn't exist at a. At a scale level and Drake has been talking about this for ages. But I think if some of the best stuff in wrestling really sold now, it would. It would open up a floodgates of people who recognize, Yu-Gi-Oh this is a lot more valuable than I thought.

100%. All right, two more to go. Extra hot for Pepper here. All the controversy around The John Cena WrestleMania patch auto will patch auto higher in final value instead of hurting. I. I think the answer is yes. Any publicity is good publicity. I have not like even intended to like really highlight this card, but like I did a whole episode is with this card as the subject for it last week. And then I recorded another episode where I ended up talking about this card again. And it's just because it's been on my mind. There's been the controversy, but it's been also been promoted. There's so much interest for the wrestling card community. So Yu-Gi-Oh I mean this has been the topic of conversation and whether good or bad, I think it's going to end in a really, really strong price for this card.

Yu-Gi-Oh And I think the overall controversy is inherently negative. Like, let me state that we talked about that at the. Briefly at the beginning of last episode. We haven't really gotten anything new, so it's not worth talking about. But I will say I have heard a lot of people on social media thinking that the card is going to end lower because of this controversy because they don't want this. This person to walk away better off than, you know, with as a result. And I, I'm like that it could not be further from. This is not my take. This is a take that is everywhere. Like, people are like, oh, this is going to hurt wrestling cards. This is going to hurt royalty. This is going to hurt. This is going to. Nothing has been hurt. And I, I've even talked to some breakers and they said that royalty is actually performed better for them since this controversy came to light. Of course, I think like this hot take is. Is more of the. Around the fact that guys, I think we have to come to terms with the fact that it really doesn't matter what controversy is built around this card. It's gonna sell for a ton of money because people don't want to miss out on a card just because there's some, you know, guttlebutt that says this or that happened. And, you know, as much as I credit the community for taking a stance and really, you know, holding their ground on certain aspects of different scams and scandals that have come out, this one is not going to have the impact on this particular card. And I think that any publicity to Breast Point is. Is good. All right, we're gonna end with one final extra insanely hot take here for Pepper. Plus, the success of wrestling cards is not due to anything brought to the space in the last five years. It's just a measure of the greater hobby being hot.

I want to hear you. I want to hear. This is one. I'll let you go first. I want to hear your perspective. So I was listening to a podcast and one. And the person on the podcast was. I was driving home from a client meeting this morning and I heard this and I was. I was like, oh, man, that is a hot fake. And there was another take in here that we. We changed out. And I think it's good that we did. But, like, I'll tell you, like, the greater hobby being hot is helpful. The wrestling card, like that is not up for debate. But wrestling cards were on a trajectory upwards that before this current boom started. And it started in 20, the end of 2023, all through 2024, and it really kicked into high gear when Topps took over in 2025. But I think that for anybody who is like, I don't like that wrestling cards are now this, you know, hot item in a smaller space. I don't like that things are different or whatever. Like those I said last time we did hot takes, that. Those people are going to be sad for a very long time. But I think the other thing is, like, people look for the downside in a lot of these positive things. Like, they start asking, when is the bubble going to burst? When is the crash going to happen? And I. Everybody talks. It's on every podcast. We're going to see the blow off soon. We're going to see the peak soon and all this other stuff. But, like, I don't know, like, I think wrestling cards has really come into a new sort of renaissance here in these last five years, thanks to Panini, kicking it off and bringing mainstream sort of collectors into the. Into the area. Like, you know, we talked. We saw Steve Pac at Wrestling Car Takeover. He is not the. The person you would expect to have a large wrestling collection, and he sure does. And I think, like, you know, Those are the Topps of people that are in this space now. They weren't before. And I think it's, it's not due to the fact that the overall hobby was hot because he came in when it was down. He was there because he loves wrestling and I think that's really cool. And I think that when we look at the overall space and I don't think that this take is correct.

I don't either. I think one thing I'll comment, I think he brought a lot of good points to the table is just they, I just think about in the last five years, just think about how much content has been created pointed at wrestling card collectors. I mean, Adam, you have been doing this for a long time. This podcast is new this year. There are so many different creators, whether they're breaking, whether they're, they're doing their own podcast. I think about, I think about a lot of accounts like constantly covering the space and that's new and I think that stuff is really important. It's important to update people on information. It's important to postcards, it's important to curate ideas. And like this, this, it feels like this year that has really hit another level. And I think providing people with information gives people confidence, it builds trust and it makes people more likely to spend money on big cards when they become available. So to me that's been a huge shift and that's, that's something I'm seeing every day across this space.

Well said. All right, let's get on to some big sales really fast here. This is one we, we talked about Flawless being the, the, the most attention on it right now. I was shocked that this one went as low as it did. This is the Hulk Hogan one of one Flawless logo diamond. This is the WWE logo. So this is arguably one of the bigger ones in the set for Hulk Hogan. It sold on alt for $7,500 and, or 7,563 last week. And I, I thought this was going to be a five figure card. I don't know if this is a measure of Hulk Hogan's market cooling a little bit because I think some of his cards maybe have cooled off a little bit since now that the, the news of his passing isn't as, as fresh. But Yu-Gi-Oh I thought this would give it all the attention that is on Flawless. Was this just the wrong platform or was it, you know, I don't know, like this, this seems low to me.

Yu-Gi-Oh I think it could be wrong platform. I think it could also be like sustaining interest for These cards and I think. I think you've see we've seen these cards there are. They're all have intimidated intimidating stickers. Intimidating stickers are they usually collectors like to wait and see and wait for a card to come to auction to validate those prices. And this is one of those moments. Is this the right validation? I don't know. Like these car. Like my complex with these cards is always like it feels to me that. And maybe it's the nature of the logo. It just feels like it's missing an autograph. I don't that just to me. But Yu-Gi-Oh again we go back to Flawless and it's just one year. So like one year. It's hard to validate a card like this over the long term. But Yu-Gi-Oh I mean I thought these were cool cards, but I would never pay what these cards are the asking price of these cards because I just, I don't think they're. I don't think they're. They're not that interesting to me in that price point.

Yu-Gi-Oh I mean like I like the cards A Like I like the. The single diamond one of one base cards a lot more like that's always been something. Now if Becky had one of these, I chase it. Yes I would. I like. I like the base cards, man. I love the base cards are so gorgeous. And the one of one diamonds look great. But I think like the RIA Ripley just like this is up for sale too. And I think this is probably gonna. We'll see what RIA goes for because I think that's probably on this level. And if it goes for less, maybe that's an indicator. If it goes for more, maybe that's another indicator. But this was just loaded. Speaking of Prizm So I purposefully put Prizm and Flawless back to back. The. This is a PSA9 2024 rock gold Prizm And it is. It went for $3200 via best offer on ebay through the PSA sort of account. So the 2024 rock I think is one of the better pictures. But it's. I think it's probably the lesser of the three just in terms of like the value of the gold. But it still went for $3200, which is a crazy amount in a PSA. PSA 9. So. Or maybe maybe they listed the auction as a nine, but it might be an eight. Actually, no, it's a nine. Never mind. Sorry. Disregard that. But this is a huge price for this card. I Do you think that when you compare this against the 23 and the 22. Like, what's your viewpoint on sort of where this price sits?

I'll just go back to this there and Adam, I'm just taking the words out of your mouth because you've hammered this so many times. Only 30 base set gold prisms of the rock. Like, the Blue Ice so small. And when I think I'm. I'm. I'm envisioning the images in my head. You've got the Rock bottom on 22, you've got the Landscape Stoic pose in 23, and in 24, you've got the rock holding the title that this is. Is this his Brahma bull belt? Yu-Gi-Oh this is the people's champion. The people's championship.

Yu-Gi-Oh the people. Yu-Gi-Oh I think. Yu-Gi-Oh I. I think. I don't know. Like, it's. It's tough to compare and contrast. Obviously, 22 is always going to be more valuable. If you told me that this was more valuable than the 23, I wouldn't lose sleep over it. I just, I kind of look at all these things as a whole and it's like I keep going back to the. There's only 30 copies. I can't imagine these things going down in value because of that. And we found out yesterday because we're recording this late. So this is Thursday recording for a Friday release. There is a PSA graded gold Shimmer from 22 that just got listed on eBay through DC Sports, I believe, and I'm very curious to see where that ends because there's a distinct possibility that that hits five figures. There's only three of those, even though they're traditionally not as valuable as the flat gold. So either way, this just briefly, I am. Of all the sets that Tops has done the 2021 Transcendent Collection, Superfractor autograph. These were one per case because there's only 50 cases available to the public. The X pop just hit the market and sold via best offer on eBay for $2,300. It's a PSA 10. These cards have a little bit of an interesting grading history because they. They either grade really well or they don't grade really well at all. There's really no in between. This is one of the PSA 10s. But to see an X PAC card sell for 2300 out of this set, like, I just think it validates. Like, this is one of the most collectible WWE sets ever made. I love the Becky lynch that I have. I would never that if I had to run into My House to grab a card when it's on fire. That's definitely one of the ones I would consider. It's that cool of a card to me. I know a lot of other people feel the same way, but this one selling for 23 for Xbox, of all people, just sort of. Sort of tells how valuable some of these cards might be.

Yu-Gi-Oh these are. These cards will always be at the top of the mountain for me. I still can't believe what I see some transcendent pieces sell for. I think transcendent is. I mean, think about what they retail that and just look at the prices now. I still think it is one of the most overlooked sets. Yu-Gi-Oh And wait. Wait until it comes back. Like, wait until it eventually comes back. If it comes back. I think it will. But this, these cards, man, they only did these one year and it's from a premium product. You've got the. The. The gold Superfractor swirls, the on card autograph. I mean, these cars are the best and I don't own any, but these cards are the best.

Yu-Gi-Oh Okay. This one I'm only. So we had two cards with awful scans in a row. Like the. I had to go and plug in the cert numbers for both of these cards because the a. Oh, what a terrible scan. Yu-Gi-Oh So I'm only putting this on here because this is the Becky Lynch Kaboom PSA 10. I mentioned before. pop report on these cards are very low. There's only 23 of these that are graded. I own an ungraded copy of this, but the graded PSA 10 via best offer sold for $2,000. And I hate talking about kabooms on this podcast because I feel like we have done it way too much. Like we've done we. Every time the rock jumps another thousand dollars. Like, I feel like we have to cover it on the podcast. But Becky has never sold anywhere close and it's not a measure of her being on fire. It's. Even though I would love for that to be the case, it's a measure of this set being absolutely just bonkers. Bannister has some very interesting theories on. On why there are so few of these available. But I would say for first of all, I think these are the best looking kabooms that Panini made. And we got lucky that wrestling, you know, is part of this. And I love the photo on this Becky card. It's one of my favorite photos Panini used during their entire run. So I am a big fan of this card, even though I'm not a huge fan of kabooms. Seeing it go to 2000. Not really a measure of my collection, but a measure of the kabooms more than anything. Agree.

Yu-Gi-Oh I, I, if I were, if you, if I were were to ask me what the Becky lynch Kaboom looked like, I would not be able to tell you. But like I feel like I'm seeing it for the first time here and this, I am not a Kaboom collector. I'll never chase these cards, they're just not my thing. But this card looks amazing. So just incredible photo. It's like what I would hope a card of Becky lynch that is this high profile what it would look like and they knocked it out of the park. Yu-Gi-Oh This photo's from War Games and she ended up winning the War Games match going through a table. I actually have a piece of that table autograph by her next to me here. So one-of-one let's close this out quickly with just a title match topic that I think I, I'm very curious to hear your thoughts on what is one thing that you've learned from your experience in creating content across all the major sports that has helped you better approach your experience in wrestling.

Yu-Gi-Oh So I will always say this, that and my, my, my thoughts are from a collector and creator perspective. I always think it is valuable if you have a history of collecting in other sports and bringing that experience in other sports and taking that knowledge to wrestling cards. I think it is a massive advantage when you're. Because you have an deep understanding of like product history, collector interest, you know, typically price points and what not to spend a lot of money on and maybe what to spend a lot of money on. And I feel very, very fortunate because like I, I understand certain products in certain things based on all the conversations that I've had over a long period of time where I understand some people only collect wrestling and that's great. But I think if you're only collecting wrestling throughout the history like you might not have that same opportunity to gain know knowledge of historical sets in where they rank and where they those price points. But, and maybe you don't care and that's totally fine too. But I do care and I collect in wrestling and I collect football and I collect some basketball stuff and I just think like participating in those circles and understanding the history of football cards, understanding the history of basketball cards has given me an advantage when new products drop or when cards pop up that might seem very intimidating and expensive to some people. And to me it seems like man, this is a deal. And I think any time you can Use other knowledge from other categories and apply it to a space like wrestling cards. Like, it's, It's a good thing. So, like, I don't know, like, I'm sure other collectors, you've collected football in the past. I'm sure, like, when you started collecting wrestling, you probably took some of those things and applied it to your new category. But, Yu-Gi-Oh I just think more information, the better. It's not always going to translate, but it'll give you some sort of baseline.

Yu-Gi-Oh I, I think you nailed it. And I've been creating content in sports cards for more than 20 years at this point, and most people who listen to this podcast either don't know me from before, because this, it was before any of this got big and, and I was a, A, a big fish in a small pond, and now I'm a very small fish in a giant ocean. But, like, I think when you look back at the experience that that has had, it has its pluses and minuses. Brett definitely explains some of the pluses. Yu-Gi-Oh Because you feel like you have the room. Like wrestling cards, I feel, is doing a speedrun through all of the things, the controversies, the, the new products, the ups and downs, the porpoise effect of, like, everything. Like, you know, it goes up and then it goes down and it goes up and it goes. And like, a lot of that stuff happened. Has happened so many times in sports cards. I can't even count all the controversy with breakers and everything like that. It's already happened in sports cards, and we're just getting exposed to it for the first time in wrestling cards. So, like, I feel like this is a speed run. But at the same token, like, I, I do feel like that experience does present a little bit of a jaded sort of like. Or not jaded is the wrong word. It's. But it's like this. I, I kind of loathe when people don't have that experience too, and they, they aren't seeing the forest for trees. And it does create some relationship barriers, I think, to connect with people who are, to your point, only collecting wrestling cards. Like, I probably come off very full of myself when I'm talking to people who just haven't gone through the things that we've gone through. And I think that's where that's a negative experience is what. Well, but I, the last thing I want to say is I listen to being a content creator. I try to consume as much of other people's content as I can, and it just gives me. I feel like you Said an advantage, but also an appreciation for some of the other things that are going on at Disney or in football or you name it. Because I hear the excitement in other people's voices and content and it really does inspire a lot of thinking to be done in this space, which I think is just on the cusp of, of becoming bigger and better and stuff like that.

So one practical example, because this was posted today and it just triggered as we were talking about this and we've talked about this product in this episode, but I think about a product like Revolution on paper to a just wrestling card collector. They could say, oh, Revolution, Yu-Gi-Oh this is just a run of the mill set, this and that. But like, if you go back and you look at Revolution amongst basketball collectors, it started in 2015 and it went all the way into the end. And it is a beloved set because of the price point and be the Galactics are just highly coveted, especially from that debut year and initial set. Yu-Gi-Oh Yu-Gi-Oh initial setting. Andrew. So Cooley cards posted the Kaleido of Rhea Ripley and I'm like, when he posted that, I reposted it. I have a John Cena, but I love these cards. And I just were like, I thought to myself, like, do collectors understand that there was only one base set, one of one without an autograph in Revolution? Probably not. But like, I love to investigate and get nerdy on that stuff. And so like seeing a card like that end up with an awesome collector, like Andrew is just awesome. But then I asked this question, is like, do people outside of wrestling or people just in wrestling cards really understand the potential of this card? I don't know, but those are the things I'm always thinking about.

Well, I mean, I remember when I was making content back in when Revolution 2022 for wrestling came out, Ryan Shear and I talked endlessly about the Galactics and the importance of those cards. And I sought out those cards very early on because to me those are what Revolution is known for is, is those Galactic case hits. Not the Kaboom in wrestling, it's the Kaboom and everywhere else the Galactics, because Kabooms were not part of Revolution in football or basketball or anything. So I think, like, for me, when you look at the Kaleidos, you look at like all the different Revolution type parallels that made this set such a collector favorite in basketball. It's one of those sets that isn't driven by autographs either. And I think now we're getting into a discussion, as I said. But this is what happens when you have like content, like, you start to think about these things. And Brett's completely correct in this. It's like, I don't know if more people recognize. Like, if you go back and you look for a Steph Curry Galactic from your good luck. It's a $30,000. Yu-Gi-Oh good luck. Like it's. And like we've said that before in other, other podcasts, but it's like, I don't think that that transferred over to wrestling because there isn't that much familiarity with other sports. And so when you have a Rock Galactic that sells for $200, like, people are like, well, it's just a case. It's just another case. Well, no, it's not if you think about it from the grand scheme of things. But look at the pot.

Look at the pop report Galactic versus Kabooms. Just, just look at them. And I'm not saying I know the, the prestige and the brand recognition of Kabooms is another level, but when you start looking at the data, it might get your wheel spinning a little bit. Yu-Gi-Oh I agree. So next week we have a special guest coming on OPS is going to join the podcast, talk about the release of Universe, some of the other things that are coming down the pike. Hopefully we may even get some reaction on some of these debut patches that are being signed. I'm very excited to talk to them again. We had them on earlier and I thought it was a fun conversation. It isn't the type of conversation I know people are going to want where it's like everybody's just asking all of the crazy conspiracy theories and stuff like that. That's not this ever is about. But I'm excited for the conversation next week. Brett, I think, and I will, will continue to chat about some of the things mentioned on this podcast because it's just like those are the Topps of things that get us fired up talking about those things. But Ryan should be back next week. Thank you for, for joining me on, on short notice. My work schedule got very complicated this week very quickly. But it was fun to have you on and do some hot takes because I didn't get to do with it do it with you last time. So hopefully we'll, we'll have this on again shortly. But thanks again for joining.

Always a good time. Thanks, Brett. See you guys next week. I'm not gonna lie. I always enjoy the hot tag. I enjoy stepping in and talking wrestling and wrestling cards and that's what we do here at Book to last. Appreciate your support. Make sure you're following so you get each episode a book to last in the coming weeks. Alongside everything else we're putting out the Stacking Slabs Network Shout Out Ryan, can't wait to have you back next week. Shout out RBI Crew 7 make sure you go visit RBI Crew7.com to buy your next wrestling card or hobby box. Until then, take care. Happy collecting. Talk to you soon.